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	<title>Comments on: The Grace of God is Undeserved&#8230; &#8216;Help&#8217;?</title>
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	<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/</link>
	<description>"Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...”</description>
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		<title>By: Darrin</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/comment-page-1/#comment-3788</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 18:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good observations, Nathan.

It really does become problematic clinging to that &quot;help&quot; word. This would seem to imply that we&#039;re the ones with the plan, the goal, and the primary means of accomplishing it - we just need some of God&#039;s power to assist in our agenda. Whereas the truth is that He has ordained all, and we desperately need Him to DO it.

You&#039;re quite right - Protestents have adopted that mindset as well. It appears that indeed all roads do lead to Rome. At least apart from Reformed orthodoxy.

Years back it struck me how often I say &quot;help me to ...&quot; and such in my prayers, and I began to feel that I was not glorifying God in this. These days I try to say, instead of &quot;help me to do ___&quot;, just &quot;please do ___&quot;!

Blessings to you, brother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good observations, Nathan.</p>
<p>It really does become problematic clinging to that &#8220;help&#8221; word. This would seem to imply that we&#8217;re the ones with the plan, the goal, and the primary means of accomplishing it &#8211; we just need some of God&#8217;s power to assist in our agenda. Whereas the truth is that He has ordained all, and we desperately need Him to DO it.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re quite right &#8211; Protestents have adopted that mindset as well. It appears that indeed all roads do lead to Rome. At least apart from Reformed orthodoxy.</p>
<p>Years back it struck me how often I say &#8220;help me to &#8230;&#8221; and such in my prayers, and I began to feel that I was not glorifying God in this. These days I try to say, instead of &#8220;help me to do ___&#8221;, just &#8220;please do ___&#8221;!</p>
<p>Blessings to you, brother.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Adams</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/comment-page-1/#comment-3781</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/#comment-3781</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think it’s fairly safe to say that the Roman Catholics are not as different, odd, or off base as many protestants make them out to be. That is, different from the majority of what the American church already confesses</p></blockquote>
<p>Yup.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bereanbeacon.org/playUtube2.php?link=?vids=?docid=0K0BLiOZzYU?store=The%20Mindset%20of%20Catholicism%20Permeating%20Evangelicalism" rel="nofollow">The Mindset of Catholicism Permeating Evangelicalism</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.bereanbeacon.org/video.php?link=?vids=http://video.google.com/http://www.bereanbeacon.org/video.php?docid=4292168417965108081?store=The%20Invincible%20Gospel%20&amp;%20The%20Modern%20Evangelical%20Lie" rel="nofollow"><br />
The Invincible Gospel and the Modern Evangelical Lie</a></p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Twitchell</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/comment-page-1/#comment-3773</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Twitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/#comment-3773</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;having God do all the work&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hmmm...

&lt;blockquote&gt;Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So yes, there is a lot of work to be done, but...

As this Scripture shows it is God who does the work, period. It is he who works in us both the willing and the doing. But... as this passage in Phillippians depicts, there is the beloved who obey and work out what has been worked in.

As to nature. Well that the subject of regeneration and/or sanctification isn&#039;t it? And it is the grace of God that insures that they both authored and perfected. The fact that the grace which saves is the provision of all that it means to be saved is captured well in the fact that we are new creations, or if you will, new creatures with new nartures that do naturally what is the pleasure of God.

That does not mean that in the working out there is not tribulation. To the contrary, it is that very tribulation that has a critical part in perfecting the sons of God. For it is without doubt that in this life we will have temptations, but the testings our our faith always proves the genuineness of it. And it is through them and the scourgings of a true Father that true sons and not illigitimate ones are received by him who calls, sanctifies and glorifies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>having God do all the work</p></blockquote>
<p>Hmmm&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.</p></blockquote>
<p>So yes, there is a lot of work to be done, but&#8230;</p>
<p>As this Scripture shows it is God who does the work, period. It is he who works in us both the willing and the doing. But&#8230; as this passage in Phillippians depicts, there is the beloved who obey and work out what has been worked in.</p>
<p>As to nature. Well that the subject of regeneration and/or sanctification isn&#8217;t it? And it is the grace of God that insures that they both authored and perfected. The fact that the grace which saves is the provision of all that it means to be saved is captured well in the fact that we are new creations, or if you will, new creatures with new nartures that do naturally what is the pleasure of God.</p>
<p>That does not mean that in the working out there is not tribulation. To the contrary, it is that very tribulation that has a critical part in perfecting the sons of God. For it is without doubt that in this life we will have temptations, but the testings our our faith always proves the genuineness of it. And it is through them and the scourgings of a true Father that true sons and not illigitimate ones are received by him who calls, sanctifies and glorifies.</p>
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		<title>By: davide</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/comment-page-1/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>davide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>Yeah, the word &quot;help&quot; does not quite grasp the biblical usage of charis. If the catholic catechism substituted the word &quot;ability&quot; for &quot;help,&quot; it would suprisingly be a perfect description of justification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the word &#8220;help&#8221; does not quite grasp the biblical usage of charis. If the catholic catechism substituted the word &#8220;ability&#8221; for &#8220;help,&#8221; it would suprisingly be a perfect description of justification.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/comment-page-1/#comment-3771</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/#comment-3771</guid>
		<description>Hi Nate.  In terms of the word &quot;help&quot;, would you not agree that it would be an oversimplification to suggest that &quot;God does everything&quot; while the believer remains completely and entirely passive in thought, word and deed?

Whether the believer is of the Reformed variety or not, I always sense a certain striving and effort.   Whether it&#039;s wrestling with temptation or matters of faith, it seems that there&#039;s more to it than just doing what one does &quot;naturally&quot; like a slightly-more intelligent animal and having God do all the work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nate.  In terms of the word &#8220;help&#8221;, would you not agree that it would be an oversimplification to suggest that &#8220;God does everything&#8221; while the believer remains completely and entirely passive in thought, word and deed?</p>
<p>Whether the believer is of the Reformed variety or not, I always sense a certain striving and effort.   Whether it&#8217;s wrestling with temptation or matters of faith, it seems that there&#8217;s more to it than just doing what one does &#8220;naturally&#8221; like a slightly-more intelligent animal and having God do all the work.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Twitchell</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/comment-page-1/#comment-3770</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Twitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shepherdtheflock.com/2009/08/21/the-grace-of-god-is-undeservedhelp/#comment-3770</guid>
		<description>All depends.

Or, we might say: God provides.

Still, some think of it as attitude others as substance. So when we speak about it we must ask the context. Such as: &lt;blockquote&gt;For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Jesus is called the grace of God. So it really matters that the term not take on simple definition and by that miss the importance of its application where it is used. Such that we have this: &lt;blockquote&gt;to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.&lt;/blockquote&gt; Charitoo is the verb form of charis. Ephesians is rich in this language and weaves it throughout with many other terms that indicate the bredth, width and depth of the meaning of this particular grace. Namely, that as is said, this grace is summed up in Christ and has particular application to the objects of God&#039;s affection. The term charitoo is only used of the elect here and in one other place, when Mary is addressed by the angel.

Then we must consider that this grace, which is active in pursuit of the objects of God&#039;s affection includes every grace gift summed up in Christ. Such that in Ephesians we have the statement that all things pertaining to the spiritual benefits of Christ are a single grace including the making alive together, or regeneration. So, when we, at least in the Calvinistic camp, speak of grace we use it diversely but in reference to the work of salvation we use it particularly and that to mean that this grace and the graces that pertain to it are given in Christ completely. As Christ is undivided, so also every gift necessary for the work of salvation is a singlular gifting which has now appeared and is completed. From the initial act of regeneration to the gift of illumination, to repentance and faith, this gracing of God towards his elect lacks nothing to accomplish the work of salvation.

It is unfortunate that the belief still persists that the grace with which God saves his people is a common grace which can be used or not, to produce or not, the rewards of using that grace. The RC position is known for its semi-Pelagianism. And that is also why Arminianism is deemed likewise. The view that this spiritual gracing is a tool, like any other common grace, which if used properly produces merit-worthy results, turns a spiritual reality into an occult working and a religion of works. God has not left it to man&#039;s machinations to produce the work of the Spirit. To the contrary. The work of salvation, beginning to end is the work of God alone. And that is what this grace in reference to salvation means.

When we say that salvation is by grace we do not mean what the RC means, nor what the Arminian means, an assistive grace or a preventive grace, only. By grace, we mean everything which pertains to salvation beginning to end so that no one who is pursued by this highest favor, charitoo, is ever lost. It then is not a grace which is left in the hands of man that he might or might not use it. But this grace is a person who does exactly what he intends and does not fail in securing the intents of His heart. So that the Scripture concludes that of the children which were given to Christ by the Father, Christ returns to the Father, having lost none of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All depends.</p>
<p>Or, we might say: God provides.</p>
<p>Still, some think of it as attitude others as substance. So when we speak about it we must ask the context. Such as:<br />
<blockquote>For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people</p></blockquote>
<p>Jesus is called the grace of God. So it really matters that the term not take on simple definition and by that miss the importance of its application where it is used. Such that we have this:<br />
<blockquote>to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.</p></blockquote>
<p> Charitoo is the verb form of charis. Ephesians is rich in this language and weaves it throughout with many other terms that indicate the bredth, width and depth of the meaning of this particular grace. Namely, that as is said, this grace is summed up in Christ and has particular application to the objects of God&#8217;s affection. The term charitoo is only used of the elect here and in one other place, when Mary is addressed by the angel.</p>
<p>Then we must consider that this grace, which is active in pursuit of the objects of God&#8217;s affection includes every grace gift summed up in Christ. Such that in Ephesians we have the statement that all things pertaining to the spiritual benefits of Christ are a single grace including the making alive together, or regeneration. So, when we, at least in the Calvinistic camp, speak of grace we use it diversely but in reference to the work of salvation we use it particularly and that to mean that this grace and the graces that pertain to it are given in Christ completely. As Christ is undivided, so also every gift necessary for the work of salvation is a singlular gifting which has now appeared and is completed. From the initial act of regeneration to the gift of illumination, to repentance and faith, this gracing of God towards his elect lacks nothing to accomplish the work of salvation.</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that the belief still persists that the grace with which God saves his people is a common grace which can be used or not, to produce or not, the rewards of using that grace. The RC position is known for its semi-Pelagianism. And that is also why Arminianism is deemed likewise. The view that this spiritual gracing is a tool, like any other common grace, which if used properly produces merit-worthy results, turns a spiritual reality into an occult working and a religion of works. God has not left it to man&#8217;s machinations to produce the work of the Spirit. To the contrary. The work of salvation, beginning to end is the work of God alone. And that is what this grace in reference to salvation means.</p>
<p>When we say that salvation is by grace we do not mean what the RC means, nor what the Arminian means, an assistive grace or a preventive grace, only. By grace, we mean everything which pertains to salvation beginning to end so that no one who is pursued by this highest favor, charitoo, is ever lost. It then is not a grace which is left in the hands of man that he might or might not use it. But this grace is a person who does exactly what he intends and does not fail in securing the intents of His heart. So that the Scripture concludes that of the children which were given to Christ by the Father, Christ returns to the Father, having lost none of them.</p>
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