Globalization and the Tower of Babel
Jan 26th, 2009 by Nathan White
A few days ago, Tom Ascol of the Founder’s Ministry linked to a rather interesting video highlighting the ‘Exponential Change’ that we are seeing in this generation. I’ve included this fascinating video below, but I wanted share a few thoughts before you view it. Specifically, as I viewed the video, the story of the Tower of Babel immediately came to mind.
The Tower of Babel
We’re all familiar with the story of the Tower of Babel found in Genesis 11. Essentially, the whole earth had one language, and all the world’s population had migrated to the same location. The whole world then joined together to build a great city, and had aspirations of building a tower that reached the heavens. Not much detail is given in regards to what exactly their great sin was, but the Lord came down and confused their language, so that they no longer understood each other, thus the people of the city of Babel were dispersed throughout the earth.
Though the text isn’t explicit in regards to their sin other than God saying “this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them” (Gen 11:6), the greater theological implications of the story are many. I do not intend to explore the implications today, but I would like to consider the concept of globalization in regards to this narrative.
Globalization
I first studied cultural globalization in an anthropology course I took last year at Kennesaw State University. It was a topic that I found very interesting. According to Wikipedia, Globalization “can be described as a process by which the people of the world are unified into a single society and function together.”
Related to this globalization is acculturation, which is “the process of adopting the cultural traits or social patterns of another group.” Essentially, this is when one culture adopts the traits of another culture because of their exposure to it. Westernization, for example, is one clear form of this, as the western way of living –things like industry, technology, law, politics, economics, lifestyle, diet, language– spread from America and Europe into Eastern societies.
Globalization and the Tower of Babel
I think it is safe to say that human depravity and it’s outward manifestation of evil flourishes most in large cities, in the larger concentrations of population. This isn’t the case every time without exception, but with the concentration of a large population in one location, the influence and opportunity for evil is greatly multiplied. Add to this the prosperity provided by living in location where work is plentiful, and there is soon little to restrain any and all outward manifestations of our sinful nature.
I think one aspect of the sin of the city of Babel was the fact that they were determined to all live in once location; one giant city, with one common culture. Forming one such culture, while rejecting the command to ‘be fruitful and multiply (spreading the knowledge and worship of God), would lead to such an abundant of sinfulness, that ‘nothing that they propose (sinfully) will be impossible’.
The City of Babel = The City of this World
If you haven’t noticed, in our day, the world is rapidly unifying in culture. One thing emphasized in the textbook that I studied was the unfortunate downside of all our technological advances in this day. It is unfortunate because pretty soon, anthropology, the study of social customs and human behavior, will will no longer have much to study given that we’re all becoming exactly alike! There won’t be any primitive tribes and their customs, or relatively unknown clans and their unique preferences of food; the entire world will be the same all over, and pretty soon we’ll find no group of people living out of reach of a local McDonalds.
This globalization started on a large scale with worldwide mail and the telephone, where we could almost instantly communicate with others all the way across the globe. Next it was air-travel, opening up global travel in a way like never before. Now, with the internet and 24hr news stations, we are experiencing a globalization at a growth rate unprecedented in all of human history (except, maybe, in the case of Babel). To put it simply: there is a breaking down of cultural distinctives, and we are rapidly moving toward a one-world, one-city, largely one culture society.
We are becoming, quite frankly, a modern-day, worldwide, Tower of Babel.
Conclusion
I have no moral story to close this post with. Simply put, I think the western influence on culture is largely a good thing. There are many aspects of globalization that are very good things. But, what I fear, and what I thought about while watching this video, is how this movement toward one-culture (notice that China will soon become the number 1 English speaking country in the world) will indeed multiply sin and the opportunity of sin on the earth. With the growth of the population, and the spread of information made possible by the internet and other media, there will be no shelter from all forms of wickedness for even the most remotest of people on the earth. Indeed, though the internet has been a great means of spreading the gospel, the accessibility of evil is has provided is enough to make any Christian –especially parents– shudder. Indeed, one unfortunate downside to our technology is the fact that “this is only the beginning of what WE will do. And nothing that WE propose to do will now be impossible“.
What a comfort and what a hope we have knowing that King Jesus is sitting on the throne, His kingdom is likewise spreading across the earth in a globalization of the gospel, and that though men “plot vain things”, the Lord “holds them in derision”, as He is ruling them, slowly but surely, “with a rod of iron”, and that one day soon every knee will bow and kiss the Son. Where would we be without the hope of what He has promised, through His Son, in His word?
Check out the video below. It is fascinating:
Nathan,
I think we as Christians are finally coming to the realization that this is what is happening. Here is a post I did before Christmas about much the same thing.
http://reformedandbaptist.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/the-sinfulness-of-cities-multiculturalism-and-the-tower-of-babel/
And here is one by David McCrory just posted today,
http://christcovenantblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/a-not-so-new-world-order/
We’ll all I think looking at and thinking about the same problem from different angles which is useful.
Good comfort the end though.
Paul
Paul–
Wow, honestly brother, I hadn’t seen that post of yours, so please understand that I wasn’t copying your thesis, though your thoughts are clearly much better than mine! Our pictures of ‘babel’ are also similar, ha.
I saw the youtube clip below and was immediately struck at how ‘nothing is impossible’, or seems impossible, now days.
I do hope readers of this blog will check out the articles that you linked. Thanks for providing them.
Nathan bro. I wouldn’t want you to think I was commenting just to draw attention to my post, I just thought it interesting that the three of us had posted on the same subject and set off by difference sources, mine my own devotions, yours from Tom Ascol and David from a third source, just seemed to me important to draw attention that this is something we need to think about.
Paul-
Oh no, I wasn’t implying that for a second. Sorry it sounded that way. I was just amazed at our ‘like-minded’ posting, and I wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn’t using your material, so to speak
Though, we do think a lot alike, so I imagine that this won’t be the last time we post similar thoughts!
Seriously, thanks for the links; they’re excellent.
I don’t think “multi-culturalism” is in itself a bad thing. I recall hearing my parents and grandparents relate of how an Italian marrying someone of Polish descent would have been considered scandalous (even if both were Christians). It wasn’t all that long ago that interracial marriage was a crime in these good United States.
As St. Paul said, in Christ, there is “neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free”.
I’m curious as to how sin can “increase” when people are able to look past superficial differences (and that’s what differences of taste in matters of food, clothing and speaking are: superficial). This seems like a step forward, not back. There have been too many conflicts over the centuries, and much blood has been shed over petty and trivial differences between cultures.
James I agree with you, the problem in modern society is that “multi-culturalism” is actually not really encouraged at all any deeper than at the surface, it seems to me that we are all called to forsake our cultures and become part of the one great culture of society. shall we call it “uni-culturalism” (as David in the above link comments terms it).
Distinctives are increasingly being discouraged and even outlawed.
Thus modern culture is an alternative to the really cross-cultural entity which is Christianity, yet both are opposed ton one another.
So in the past the Polish and Italian could marry and become Polish-Italian, now they would have to marry and become “modern” or something.
I’m still just thinking this all through, but I agree with your comment.
Found your link through the same post on the Founders Ministries blog, and may I first say Howdy, (or “Hey”?) from the rural southern part of the same beautiful state of Georgia!
The whole thing is fascinating and in a way disturbing. Certainly I see Babel in everything as I look around – they’re building “colliders” to try to re-create the Creation, they’re investing so much time and energy and so much of themselves into being better/faster/stronger, etc…Babel, no doubt. It’s an interesting angle to consider that attempts at “re-unification” of people for secular purposes would be analogous of the disobedience of the people of Babel as you mention – never thought of that but the whole thing does come together and “fits” in with the bigger picture, doesn’t it? Good thoughts here, as with Ascol’s reassurances from Scripture that God does not change and that His word will stand forever, and I praise God for that! I couldn’t help but see the video through an eschatological lens; that of Daniel’s words from 12:3-4:
And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
We have always had our Babels throughout human history but never on such a level as we have today. Even a secularly-minded coworker of mine recently lamented, “The world can’t keep going like this.” There is work to be done for the Kingdom; it seems that this may be a call to that work, a reminder to refill the oil in our lamps with the joy of His salvation and to the praise of the glory of His grace; that in all things we lean on Christ and not our own perceived wisdom nor the works of our own hands:
Thus says the LORD,
“Preserve justice and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come
And My righteousness to be revealed.
Isaiah 56:1
Exciting, no?
The only problem here is that the Tower of Babel story is just that…a story. The evidence all over the world is that mankind was everywhere and in large numbers. Population of the earth at the time of the supposed ‘tower’ was between 10 and 15 million people and we were living in North and South America, all over Asia and Europe, in Australia, and of course all over our homeland…Africa.
The people of these places already had languages that they had been speaking for thousands of years.
Why Bill, I’m glad you came along, I hadn’t thought of that.
We’ve shown our documentary evidence – Genesis 11, now you show yours…where is all this evidence all over the world? What form is it in? Quote it to me. What year was the Tower of Babel built? Show me evidence that the period you are talking about and the places the same as Genesis 11 is referring to.
Hi Paul, thank you for your reply. I hope you are well.
According to most Christian religious sects the Flood happened around 2300-2200 BC
Genesis 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. First mention of burnt bricks was about 3500-3100 BC (1)
Genesis 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad *two years after the flood:*
So the Tower of Babel was happening sometime shortly after the flood. Most Christian religious sects place it between 100-200 after the flood. Around the time of the supposed Tower of Babel the civilization on the plains of Shinar were Sumerian. (2)Babylonian civilization wasn’t really full blown until about 1760 BC or thereabouts and they inherited Sumerian buildings and such.
This kind of ties in with the Pentateuch not being written by Moses and most probably written in the time of the Jewish exile–500ish BC when the Jews didn’t know of the earlier Sumerians being where they placed their Tower story.
You write:
“We’ve shown our documentary evidence – Genesis 11, now you show yours…where is all this evidence all over the world? What form is it in? Quote it to me. What year was the Tower of Babel built? Show me evidence that the period you are talking about and the places the same as Genesis 11 is referring to.”
Well sir, my evidence is spread all over the world and in all 50 of our states, in the thousands of colleges and universities, and it can probably be found in most high schools too, although the Christian right is trying to change that. The form you will find the evidence in is College and University text books written by the eminent scholars of their fields. I will not (could not) quote it all to you as there is simply too much information out there. And it is there, there is not one field of science that somehow impinges on Biblical matters in one way or another that backs up the Genesis stories. Even ‘the Pentateuch was written by Moses’ theory is not backed up by mainline Christian scholars or the evidence.
The Catholic Church and about 50%-60% of mainline Christian Protestant denominations believe that the Flood never happened … the Tower incident never happened as the story of the flood and tower are interconnected.
The larger civilizations that were around before and after the flood were the Mesopotamian, the Egyptian, the Indus Valley, the Minoan, and the Chinese. Around the time of the supposed flood all of these larger civilizations were literate to some degree and they show no signs of complete destruction, or writings about such. The Egyptians were living right next door, had already built many pyramids, had language and writing and did not notice or write of any cataclysmic flood. The evidence for what I have written here is readily available all over the web and in all those colleges and universities I mentioned earlier. I know as I studied in a couple of them.
Also around at these times (Flood and Tower) were loose confederations of people everywhere on earth. People in England had built the Stonehenge monument. The Jomon people in Japan had been making pottery for thousands of years already.
“There is disagreement among anthropologists on when language was first used by humans (or their ancestors). Estimates range from about two million (2,000,000) years ago, during the time of Homo habilis, to as recently as forty thousand (40,000) years ago, during the time of Cro-Magnon man. However recent evidence suggests modern human language was invented or evolved in Africa prior to the dispersal of humans from Africa around 50,000 years ago. Since all people including the most isolated indigenous groups such as the Andamanese or the Tasmanian aboriginals possess language, then it was presumably present in the ancestral populations in Africa before the human population split into various groups to colonize the rest of the world” From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language
“…But new research is eroding the idea that the origins of language are hopelessly lost in the mists of time. New clues have started to emerge from archaeology, genetics and human behavioral ecology, and even linguists have grudgingly begun to join in the discussion before other specialists eat their lunch.”
From:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E0DF173CF936A25754C0A9659C8B63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1
“…If we identify the origin of current linguistic diversity with the appearance of behaviorally modern people–a not unreasonable inference given the linguistic and archaeological evidence–then the linguistic similarities connecting all the world’s languages may have had a common origin as recently as 50,000 years ago. If this scenario is correct–and linguistic, genetic, and archaeological evidence seem to support it–then all modern humans (and all contemporary human cultures and languages) share a recent common origin.”
From: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3651/is_199601/ai_n8757319
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick
2. http://meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Mesopotamia/timeline_of_babylonia.htm
Just a few quick lookups. But the main thing to remember is that a lot of the Old Testament is being proven to be wrong. You can no longer go to it as a reliable source of real happenings. Scientists have doubted the ‘Flood’ since the 1600’s AD. There is so much science behind its demise that anyone with a slight bit of education cannot seriously believe it any more.
Bill
“Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts”…2 Peter 3:3
It’s all part of the script…and you Bill G, unfortunately, are part of it (or have been deceived). There are millions like you that are making me and many Christians very happy, cause you guys are the evidence that we are nearing the end.
Thank you for your links…and your STORIES of millions and millions and millions years ago.
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God”…1 Corinthians 3:19
Hi Albert, thanks for writing back.
I don’t think I am following a ‘lust’ I am just writing what I know. People of religion have been predicting the end of the world or ‘end times’ for 2000 years now. Jesus started it all by telling his followers that they would live to see his ’second coming’ Well obviously that never happened.
What makes you think you know more than Jesus?
What makes you think you have better evidence for a ‘end times’ than any other sect out there?
You poor lost souls are trying to make a self fulfilling prophecy…and then you’ll be dead…all for naught, as there is no heaven, there is no second life.
Bill-
I was just going to let your comments pass, but given you last statement (there is no heaven, there is no second life.), I’m going to step in for a moment.
You come onto my blog and make some pretty bold claims, but what do you give as evidence? Wikipedia sources? Your own experience? Why should we trust your sources over the Bible? Because you think they’re more reliable? Because your experience more closely aligns with your sources, as opposed to the supernatural claims of scripture?
The reality is, without a foundation, an ultimate truth, you have no standard to compare anything with. You have no basis for rational, you have no basis for real ‘logic’, you have no basis for truth as opposed to error. All you have is your own logic, which you can neither create or sustain on your own, and your own experience, which means nothing in regards to determining truth.
Truth be known, we don’t know exactly how old the earth is, or when in history the tower of Babel took place. The scriptures were not written for that purpose, and they were not written to satisfy critics. Truth is, making an example of ‘prophets’ who predict the end of the world also doesn’t comport with scripture, as Jesus says no man will ever know the day or hour.
And the truth is, your conscience declares to you that you have sinned against God. You have stolen from people. You have lied to people. You have spoke evil of people. You have disobeyed your parents. You have sexually desired more than one other women in your life. You have failed to worship, serve, and obey the God who gives you breath each day, clothes on your back and food in your stomach. And you know that a Judge who doesn’t punish evil is himself evil and worthless, and that the God who created this world -a God of order and uprightness- will indeed punish every sin every committed. It is because of these things that you suppress the truth of God and try to convince yourself that He doesn’t exist. I know, because we all do it.
It isn’t the evidence that won’t convince you, for the evidence all points to a righteous, loving, orderly, and sovereign God. What won’t convince you is your irrational thinking which is fueled by a personal conviction of sin.
Sorry for the long note, but I felt it was necessary given your rather bold claims. If you’d like to discuss things rationally –that is, presupposing that an ultimate foundation exists so that logic may rightly be ascertained, then let’s continue this conversation. But if you’re going to continue to scoff, I’ll cut it off here –there are more important discussions that demand my time.
Hi Nathan White, good of you to reply.
You write:
“You come onto my blog and make some pretty bold claims, but what do you give as evidence? Wikipedia sources? Your own experience? Why should we trust your sources over the Bible? Because you think they’re more reliable? Because your experience more closely aligns with your sources, as opposed to the supernatural claims of scripture?”
What do I claim as evidence? How about every non religious college and universities science classes from around the world. Even some of the religiously funded colleges are on this side. The Catholic Church told their people not to believe the Flood myth anymore in 1908, in the 1950’s they accepted evolution…all because the science is becoming undeniable by those open to reason. About 50% of mainline Protestant denominations accept evolution.
You write:
“Truth be known, we don’t know exactly how old the earth is, or when in history the tower of Babel took place. The scriptures were not written for that purpose, and they were not written to satisfy critics. Truth is, making an example of ‘prophets’ who predict the end of the world also doesn’t comport with scripture, as Jesus says no man will ever know the day or hour.”
Respectfully sir, you are wrong. We do know the age of the earth, and it is far and away past 6,000 +- years. Yes, Jesus said no one knows the hour, but he ALSO said that those alive then…would see him come again.
I doubt that any real scientist thinks differently about ages and times though, as the evidence is pretty convincing. The religions, especially the fundamentalist evangelical types, are just ignoring the facts. The Baptist denominations are famous for not accepting facts.
You write:
“The reality is, without a foundation, an ultimate truth, you have no standard to compare anything with. You have no basis for rational, you have no basis for real ‘logic’, you have no basis for truth as opposed to error. All you have is your own logic, which you can neither create or sustain on your own, and your own experience, which means nothing in regards to determining truth.”
Again I must disagree with you. My foundation is education and knowledge and living a long life with much experience. Logic and truth are obtainable by anyone who uses their intelligence, and I can determine truth very easily. One has only to look at facts not supposed supernatural happenings.
You write:
“And the truth is, your conscience declares to you that you have sinned against God. You have stolen from people. You have lied to people. You have spoke evil of people. You have disobeyed your parents. You have sexually desired more than one other women in your life. You have failed to worship, serve, and obey the God who gives you breath each day, clothes on your back and food in your stomach. And you know that a Judge who doesn’t punish evil is himself evil and worthless, and that the God who created this world -a God of order and uprightness- will indeed punish every sin every committed. It is because of these things that you suppress the truth of God and try to convince yourself that He doesn’t exist. I know, because we all do it.”
Wow, that’s a great sentence. OK, as a child I stole a few toys, and told some whoppers, I generally do not speak evil of people…exceptions being the Hitler’s and Bernie Madoff’s of the world. As an adult I will tell the little social white lies to serve a good purpose…Darlin’ you look fabulous!! I have been married and happy with 1 woman for 35 years, but being human the mind wanders occasionally. However I do not serve in a faith or religion I cannot believe in. In a nice way of course.
You write:
“It isn’t the evidence that won’t convince you, for the evidence all points to a righteous, loving, orderly, and sovereign God. What won’t convince you is your irrational thinking which is fueled by a personal conviction of sin.”
Boy you sure are trying to convince me I’m a sinner. All the evidence is starting to very much point to there being no God. How much does one need to prove that the Bible is false before it loses its authority? The Flood has been disproven and the Bible seems to link the Tower incident together in time…almost all religions place the Flood around 2400-2200 BC putting both events in historical time that can easily be checked nowadays.
There is absolutely no doubt that humans (Homo-sapiens) have been on earth…and ALL over the earth for 10’s of thousands of years. If you put Adam and Eve back to 150,000 to 200,000 years ago and could somehow make that figure work with the rest of the Bible it might make a little sense, but not much.
No Adam and Eve, no ‘original sin,’ no need for Jesus to absolve imaginary sins.
No Flood or Tower of Babel, no credibility to other things it proclaims as truth, as served up by God. Actually its man serving up this lie. I don’t blame you; you have been led astray by 2,000 years of continual blarney
And up until recently men had no way of disproving the fiction.
Nice ‘talking’ to you, have a good day.
Hi Bill—
Sorry for the rambling note last night. It was a little late for me and it had been a long day. Let me see if I can be a little more succinct and coherent here.
First, I do not accept your presuppositions of ‘colleges’ and ‘universities’ and ‘scientists’ as the holders of absolute truth. Yes, they know much more than I do in their respective fields, but I do not approach truth in the same way as you do. Humans are limited in their knowledge, and often wrong. The scientific community is always learning new things, and always finding out they have been wrong about confident assertions made in previous generations.
Regarding the flood, again, I don’t know when it happened. It may have happened a whole lot long ago than many of us think. But the Bible and Jesus Christ upholds it as a real, historical event. My foundation for truth it outside of myself and fallible humanity; yours is not, and that is a fundamental difference in how we approach this issue.
Secondly, species evolving (evolution) is much different that the origin of life. An origin of life that fails to recognize the God of the Bible betrays scientific method, not to mention your own holy writ of “education and knowledge and living a long life with much experience.”
Next, respectively, we do not know the age of the earth with any certainty. Another problem with your position, despite elevating human scientists and changing methods up as absolute truth, is the fact that new evidence, according to your holy writ of “education and knowledge and living a long life with much experience”, could pop up tomorrow that could change everything you and everybody else thinks about the world.
Next, no, if you think Jesus told His followers that they would see the Second Coming of Judgment, you haven’t read the scriptures very closely. Already you have Him contradicting Himself because you claim He told them when He would come, but also told them nobody knew when He would come.
Next, again, what are ‘facts’ in your system anyway? Evangelicals are ignoring the ‘facts’? What facts? The fact that man is too limited in his knowledge and understanding, not to mention error and sinfulness, to ultimately determine and know absolute truth? The fact that men/scientists are always changing, learning, not to mention contradicting each other? Again, we have different views on how truth is determined (not to mention defined).
Next, no, I still maintain that you are nothing but subjective in defining logic, rational, not to mention morality. There were lots of shootings in the news today, and sadly, the fact that there is no afterlife, there is no punishment for evil, no consequences, etc., fits perfectly with these murder-suicide mindsets. Who cares if there is no punishment? Who cares if I kill my neighbor if my family is starving and I need the food he has? Your views are irrational. You cannot account for the fact that there are immaterial laws in the universe (like 1 + 1 equals 2), that have an ultimate source of truth, without which they cease to be objective altogether.
Next, sorry for the rambling about sinfulness. We’re all sinful, of course. But my point was that it is because of a burning conscience that you are fighting to suppress what it so obvious in the world around us: that there is a Creator, that He has standards, and that there are consequences to all our actions.
But the good news is, despite our sinfulness, God has Himself solved the problem of His infinite justice. The sins of those who believe have been punished via the Righteous Man, Jesus Christ, thus providing forgiveness to them without compromising His righteousness and justice. All who come to Him in faith and repentance will receive forgiveness of sins.
And by the way, though it does not conform to your own personal experience or those in this modern age, Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead after 3 days in the grave, thus *proving* that He is God and His words were true. You reject this because you have never seen such a rising from the dead, but I hope you won’t continue to limit absolute truth to your minuscule personal understanding and experience.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
[...] government services to codify a Euro-centric view of copyleft, in 22 languages. (Nathan White has a giant version of this Tower of Babel image on his Shepherd the Flock blog.) Roberto Galloppini writes from Rome that the Open Source Initiative [...]
[...] Inspired by: Curtis Schweitzer, Got Questions and Nathan White [...]
Hello gods children,
I am nobody for some of you, but to God I am His child and I believe that from my whole heart and not just the bottom of my heart like some say. I am excited to see you all are even thinking, discussing these issues about our Lord Jesus Christ our Savior, and you taking the time and energy to know Him or even debt on this. Whether you know Him or not and those that know Him are totally blessed and I know you can’t wait to see Him face to face. In reference to the Babel or to any other issue of this world. He made this world and he made you. So bless all of you and thank all of you for reminding me who He is the “Creator of All”. I mean all…..and the evil will always try to stir us away from the truth…….
But the Truth is that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and he will return and save His Children and that is all those that know him and love him.
My love to you all brothers and sisters… see you soon
Would those that debt on this issue rather continue fighting or teaching people about love, peace, and salvation…..This is simple Love or Hate ?
Nathan and those others that have continue to do the work of our Savior Jesus Christ ….. Thank you…. thank you
And those that debt…… Thank you as well, thank you for sending me back to my Savior Jesus Christ!
Nice article… read Ritzer’s Glozalization of Nothing.
btw have you ever thought about the fact why the bible uses the terms ’sheep’ and ’shephard’? Its obvious that sheep is the most stupid animal alive.
“One has only to look at facts not supposed supernatural happenings.”
The problem is that humans observe facts from a specific perspective. As the old saying goes, perception is reality. The idea of the unexplainable or something transcending all observable knowledge is contained in both the Methodological Materialistic world view and the Christian world view. The materialist truly believes that something can come from nothing, because observable science has all but proven the beginning at about 14-15 billion years ago, i.e. the Big Bang. Also, many materialists are adopting the Multiverse theory. So there are many universes keeping our universe relatively flat and allowing our universe to maintain physical laws that provide for life. However, these universes can never be tested or observed, but they must be there because we exist. You know, the materialists are starting to sound much more like Christians in their cosmology.
Blessings,
Bill G states:
“The Catholic Church told their people not to believe the Flood myth anymore in 1908, in the 1950’s they accepted evolution…all because the science is becoming undeniable by those open to reason. About 50% of mainline Protestant denominations accept evolution.”
Bill is wrong about what the Catholic Church teaches.
I suggest he reads the book titled:
“The doctrines of Genesis 1-11″,
by Rev. Victor P. Warkulwiz
http://www.amazon.com/Doctrines-Genesis-1-11-Compendium-Traditional/dp/0595452434
Peter S.
Hi Peter Stornebrink,
The following is Copy and Pasted from the newadvent Catholic Encyclopedia site Here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04702a.htm
“The Biblical account ascribes some kind of a universality to the Flood. But it may have been geographically universal, or it may have been only anthropologically universal. In other words, the Flood may have covered the whole earth, or it may have destroyed all men, covering only a certain part of the earth. Till about the seventeenth century, it was generally believed that the Deluge had been geographically universal, and this opinion is defended even in our days by some conservative scholars (cf. Kaulen in Kirchenlexikon).”
“But two hundred years of theological and scientific study devoted to the question have thrown so much light on it that we may now defend the following conclusions:
**The geographical universality of the Deluge may be safely abandoned**”
“Neither Sacred Scripture nor universal ecclesiastical tradition, nor again scientific considerations, render it advisable to adhere to the opinion that the Flood covered the whole surface of the earth.”
If the “Deluge” is a local flood, as it surely was, IF it even happened, the whole drama of mankind/sin/new beginning is lost and all you have left is a moral instructional story of no importance to today’s 6.8 billion people…most of whom do not subscribe to the Christian myths. The power is gone…your priests-ministers-pastors-rabbi’s-etc. are lying to you…have been for thousands of years.
You can find the Popes advice to accept evolution on their website, I don’t have time tonite to find it, but will later.
Bill G.
Bill G.
I have followed your contributions to this discussion with great interest. I do admire your faith in reason and the scientific method; you show as much fidelity as Christians do to the Holy Scriptures. It is this faith (this a priori nebulous, non-material, “entity”) that gives meaning to our existence. Faith expects the existence of truth and that this truth is apprehend-able.
I believe (and I hope that I am now permitted to say the words “I believe”) that neither religion nor science hold the absolute claim to truth. Historically, The Church and the scientific community have discovered errors in their understanding of truth. For example, the Church, as you rightly pointed out, has admitted the use of incorrect hermeneutics as they used the Bible as purely a historical/ scientific document. This admission does not repudiate all scriptural truth any more that scientists admission of errors repudiate the need and use of the scientific method. Since one does not declare all scientific findings as false simply on the basis of one scientific misrepresentation of truth, then one cannot declare all Scriptural truths to be false on the basis of some misunderstandings of such truth. What we see is faith seeking truth, believing that it can be found and that such searching is a worthwhile quest.
The scripture has historically been used to control the masses and to insight wars on the basis of sectarian values; The Scripture has also been used to promote Godly principles such as justice, peace and joy to all people. The Scriptures teaches us to respect, appreciate and even benefit from our differences. (We don’t have to become a one world nation to achieve that). The Scriptures teach that since we are prone to rebellion against such values, it was necessary for God to show us forgiveness and acceptance. I believe that that came through Jesus Christ. God also had to give us the power to to live according to these principles. I believe that this came through the power of God’s Holy Spirit. Why do I believe this? because I have personally experienced this in my own life and seen it in the lives of many.
It is all a matter of faith. Faith gives those true seekers of truth the openness of mind to find it anywhere and from any and every source and sphere of our existence. The Scripture helps those seekers as they come to realize that not all of truth is measurable. Therefore, it helps seekers to confront and increasingly comprehend both the measurable and immeasurable spheres of existence.
I would really like to share more with you because you do seem open to a frank discussion of this subject.
Rod.
don smyth Says:
Don’t know what to make of the Tower of Babel? Doesn’t bible history begin and end with divine wrath against globalism?
Who could imagine that Christian leaders have nothing, absolutely nothing to say about this. The point that triggers divine re-intervention in the world according to John’s Apocalypse is the “fornication” between the global harlot – whose traders are the “princes of the earth” and the political kings. If you doubt this is universal, one of endless examples would be the intriguing money relationship between the European “world corp” Trafigura and the distant ruling PNP party of Jamaica.
What should be sparking a series of books from the Rapture crowd is the most compelling angle of the whole thing – the Good Lord has to turn to the incarnation of His eternal enemy, the coming “Great Victor” to do the deed. If he can do so “in an hour” it has a lot to do with the current mergers across continents of the world’s stock exchanges and computerization of stock trading. So much for the wisdom of the titans and oligarchs – “wiser than Danel”.
Marx envisaged a vanguard that would smash capitalism. In reality it will be achieved by one man – who they are certain has no guile, no ambition and whom they have to force out of self-withdrawal in Palestine after forsaking the power centers of Israel. In a post-American world, a Long War that begins in Africa will by the fifth decade ahead have brought the Mediterranean states of Europe and North Africa close to surrender. F—- reluctantly assumes the role of Supreme Commander, and within four years will have brought about a monumental victory.
And who better to lead the surviving world through a “Septennat” of Reconstruction than the man who has already achieved an economic miracle in Palestine – all achieved in concert with the good capitalists of the earth.
America, better take a look at the parallels in your own prophetic history because they occur much sooner, much sooner. Divine protection has been withdrawn from the providential land because of your trade and commerce. Do I get it, or like it? No. I love America. I don’t understand divine judgment. I just know I don’t want to be alive to see the providential lands of North America brought down.
Take a look at the symbolic list of “stocks” that accompanies the description of the global harlot. Note that the final one is “human body parts” (not to be confused with the preceding one, human slaves, once again an issue) – NT Translation. 1985. I live in a land – that also set itself up as a “Dominion” of the Good Shepherd swearing in its birth that He shall “have dominion from sea to sea”. Canada too has reneged on its trust in God. But I am aware that a decade ago our hospitals were buying illicit body tissue, stolen body tissue, being provided by a German publicly traded corporation. Thanks for your patience with me.