My brother Davide pulled me aside the other night and corrected me on something above, and I owe an apology on the statement I made above:

“…I am accusing NCT of directly violating the ‘relaxing of the least of these commandments’ that Jesus warns against here. That is a serious warning, one where Jesus is saying that it could lead to being cast out of the kingdom of heaven.”

As Davide gently pointed out to me, there must be a distinction made between relaxing the Law in practice and relaxing the Law in word. In this particular case, I am accusing NCT of relaxing the Law in their theology, but I am by no means accusing anyone of relaxing/breaking the Law with their lives. Even among those who abrogate the Sabbath, I certainly believe that they are not habitual Sabbath-breakers –even though they deny the relevance of the command.

Thus, I was too harsh and sweeping in my comment above, and I DO recognize that my NCT brothers and sisters in Christ, more often than not, live commendable, righteous lives, even much more fruitful than myself. I apologize and do ask forgiveness for my harsh words.

Grace and Peace to all~

Nathan

In fact, I’m almost inclined (again, as before) to ask you not to come back. For your response to my words is clearly contrary to the good-ole-fashion, knock-em-out, theological debate that I find as healthy as iron-sharpening-iron. If I can’t tell you how I really feel about NCT), then what’s the use in pretending? I’ve put up with you guys throwing out the Galatian-heresy stuff, no?

But what bothers me most is how you see yourself as the one in control of this blog and this discussion. For example: this post was not about NCT in particular. Even more so, I have no intention to specifically critique and/or discuss the writings of NCT in this post –despite your insistence that if I don’t deal with them, then I don’t know what I’m talking about. (And for the record, I’m much, much more familiar with those writings, particularly Zaspel, then I’d ever feel inclined to convince you of.) You’re not in control of this discussion, Dirk. You don’t dictate the rules, the pre-reading, or the topic of discussion. And this is your last warning here at STF.

Listen, you guys so strongly disagree with me on this post, but you won’t deal with my arguments! What kind of arrogance is that? Others have been kind enough to say ‘hey, I’d prefer to keep peace and agree to disagree’, which is fine, but you’ve given me a list of books as if that is an argument in itself, and then you condemn me as full of pride because I continue to state my position in hopes that someone will step up to the plate and shed light upon the NCT understanding of this text.

But what’s ironic here is that I have been firm, no doubt. But what I have said doesn’t even come close to how harsh Jesus in Matt 5:19 condemns the one who ‘relaxes’ any OT commandment, and that includes incest my friend. If you find me harsh and stingy on the Law, you should meet my Lord.

“No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment…Neither is new wine put into old wineskins…But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.” (ESV- Matt9:16-17)

Nathan wrote:

“Honestly, brothers, I had no desire to specifically discuss NCT in this post, and thus we should probably stop here before I offend someone.”

“It is not a doctrine that I find healthy to the church, nor one that I have much patience for. The shallowness in which the texts are approached, and the decided western lens in which NT passages about the Law are read through, do indeed cause me to ‘pull my hair out’ and walk away from such foolishness.”

“You guys go read the men who defend marrying your sister and such, and do the rest of your discussion and linking offline”

“I wish I could say that same about the NCT position, but I cannot. It is a plague to the modern church in its consistent form. I’ve seen the laziness and personal compromise that it leads one to. And it hasn’t even been around long enough to present us with some time-tested fruit as to what it leads to”

I agree Nathan you should have stopped the discussion about NCT. If we are not able to communicate the truth in love we should not talk at all (Eph4:15). It’s pretty obvious that you are only “familiar with the works” I have cited. Take the time and read them by yourself and I am sure your tone will become more humble. For instance, if you read Tom Wells and Fred Zaspel’s book on “New Covenant Theology” you will find four full chapters that are devoted to Matthew 5:17-20. I do not think that you will be persuaded into the NCT viewpoint by reading the book, but I do believe (hope and pray) that reading the whole book would make you at least a “time-tested”, fruit bearing , and more loving brother in Christ Jesus.

Nathan wrote:

“Though you may see the incest guy as nuts, I would submit to you that you have no defense for arguing against incest. Incest is not repeated in the NT, nor does it appear pre-law in explicit form.”

Dear brothers, there is much more we can learn from NCT than disputing what the new covenant teaches us about incest. Remember Rom14:22-23 for instance. The NT nowhere forces us to marry our relatives. We don’t have to go against our consciences in this case. But on the other side we have to be careful to not pass on judgment too quickly (1Cor4:5) and define incest as “common or unclean” under the NC era. I know that sounds very strange (almost disgusting) to our ears. But, I am sure that Peter was pretty shocked as well when he first received the vision from the Lord (Act10:13-14). And please remember brethren, the NT clearly teaches us that there is a change in the law (Heb7:12), that Christ is the ultimate fulfillment (Matt5:17) of the law and that the whole law (no division between ceremonial, civil or moral law) served as a “guardian until Christ came” (Gal3:24).

So please, stop being so hyper about it Nathan and rather follow David’s advice who wrote:

“You and I both have the Spirit in us and therefore we both love the laws of God. We love Christ, we love His law, we love His gospel. We love God’s righteousness as revealed in the OT law and the life of Christ. Through faith in Christ, we delight in the law of God after the inward man. As Christians, we continually strive to repent and oppose the works of the flesh and to walk in the spirit. We both read and study both Testaments, for the entire word of God is relevant and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, etc.”

Amen David!

In a Berean fashion (Act17:11) and in a spirit of love (1Pet4:8).
Much love,

Dirk

SDG

And, for example, we often hear the same thing from Arminians concerning the doctrines of pre-destination –and that discussion certainly isn’t pointless either. But if you believe it will lead to contention then let’s certainly stop here.

I must say, however, that getting NCT guys to sit down and exegete this passage is like getting an Arminian to stay in and discuss Romans 9 without running to John 3:16. Clearly, on its face reading, Matt 5 contradicts the NCT position. So instead of running to Gal 3 or Rom 6, it falls on the shoulders of NCT to interpret it without hermeneutical gymnastics, like those used by dispensationals for example. I say this for any other readers who would like to discuss this passage here. The floor is open to love me enough to expose my error

One question though, Davide: who is the author of the OT Law given at Sinai? You do believe it was given by God to Moses, right? Do you believe it was written by the finger of the pre-incarnate Christ, or that it was mediated to Moses without the involvement of Jesus? I won’t argue with you; just want to know because you mentioned laws plural in your comment above.

SDG

“These things are excellent and profitable for people. But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the LAW, for they are unprofitable and worthless.” Titus

You and I both have the Spirit in us and therefore we both love the laws of God. We love Christ, we love His law, we love His gospel. We love God’s righteousness as revealed in the the OT law and the life of Christ. Through faith in Christ, we delight in the law of God after the inward man. As Christians, we continually strive to repent and oppose the works of the flesh and to walk in the spirit. We both read and study both Testaments, for the entire word of God is relevant and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, etc.

So what further need of discussion do we have?

A couple of things about your words:
-I’d be interested in how you would exegete the Matt 5 passage. Would you care to share your thoughts here for all to see and judge?

-Though you may see the incest guy as nuts, I would submit to you that you have no defense for arguing against incest. Incest is not repeated in the NT, nor does it appear pre-law in explicit form.

-I would also submit that holding to the imputed righteousness of Christ is illogical for NCT, since we are not bound to the Mosaic Law in any way, thus there is no reason why Christ should’ve fulfilled it in our place. The argument that we are sanctified by a different law than what we were justified by finds absolutely zero biblical support.

-Finally, MacArthur holds to a CT position on Matthew 5 and the three-fold division on the law. Piper, on the other hand, is very ambiguous. He has clearly said some things that lean him towards NCT (specifically, his denial of the Covenant of grace), but I’ve listened to him preach through Romans, and I would argue that he rejects some of the basic tenants of NCT based upon that series. Not only this, but his book on the imputed righteousness of Christ, I would argue, also leans heavily in a CT direction, and decidedly contrary to NCT. So although it might ease the consciences of some NCT guys by claiming them as their own (and others, particularly from church history), the facts remain that NCT is a novelty, and that few reputable men hold to it.