If he has actually been communicating this theology to this lost child, and I assume he has, this is even more tragic. I’ve tried to explain biblical perseverence vs the prevailing eternal security beliefs to him but with no success. Reading your post is leading me to believe I need to be even more zealous in this. Good stuff, however uncomfortable it may be.

I’ve been reading your blog for some time - thank you for your posts. I attend a dispensational church and for some time the errors in this system. They preach a mixture of Calvanistic and Arminian soteriology there, but definitely with a passion for the lost. I’d say they’d probably respond “we’re Biblical” if asked which camp they settle in.

Anyhow, I wanted to ask you about the quote above as I am learning myself:

“At least in Spurgeon’s day these men were consistent enough to preach that if you didn’t continue in this repentance until death, then you would lose your salvation!”

Just to make sure I’m understanding this right, by this did you mean that a believer if they do not continue in repentance until death can really lose their salvation?

Nate

One of the most common arguments you will hear against the doctrines of grace is that “if man does not have the ability within himself to respond to God that he is not responsible.” They just can’t seem to get a grip on the idea that man is so determined in his hatred of the light that he never will come to Christ, unless God “takes out your heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh.” However, they don’t seem to have a problem with believing that man will not have the ability to sin in heaven. So, does he have “free will” in heaven or not?

This reminds me of the last argument against Calvinism that I heard from my former Pastor, SBC president nominee, Frank Cox. He said, “I could never be a Calvinist because I believe in a whosoever will Jesus.” Well, I also believe in a “whosoever will” Jesus. It’s just that the only whosoevers who will are the ones who have been made willing by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. The rest of the whosoevers will love the darkness, hate the light and find a million excuses not to believe such as, “the church is boring, irrelevant, judgmental and homophopic.”

So in answer to your question Nate, when God draws someone and regenerates them, He will also hold them forever for “He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion.” Notice who began the good work and who brings it completion. We are a new creation of Christ’s, not of our own will. We did not call ourselves out of the tomb.

I’ve been wrestling with this quite a bit lately, especially being at a dispensationalist church. The preacher will teach that man is dead in sin (not just sin-inclined as some preach today) and that the Spirit must convict a man, but then when it comes to anything election-related it’s not taught. Recently at a Wed service that subject came up and the preacher said, “election is a tough topic and we’re just not going to talk about it now.” I’ve asked him in the past and he’s said, “but God knows if man will believe - if man will choose.” I think that’s the crux of the matter though - ultimately the gospel presented is a decision of man, that man must choose. That man must trust. That it’s really up to man. But, then the ironic part as I’ve come to understand more the discussion going on here is that man can make a decision, but then man can’t then reverse the decision in today’s theology. At least in Spurgeon’s time man’s free will also kept open the opportunity for man to freely deny and thus lose his salvation…

Bill supplied a very good answer above. Let me just add one or two things to
his words:

First, I think most everyone would respond with ‘we’re biblical’ if asked
which camp we stand in , though I do understand what you mean by this.
But using labels is very helpful for defining important specifics. Indeed,
we call ourselves ‘Trinitarians’, ‘Baptists’, and even ‘Christians’ in hopes
of better defining our beliefs, and it is no different with the terms
‘Calvinist’ and ‘Arminian’.

Secondly, I am certainly not saying that a *true* believer can fall away to
damnation after *true* salvation. God’s people are elected before the
foundation of the world, perfected in Christ –and not by their own works,
and are kept secure by Christ until the final day. But as Bill explained,
Calvinism in Spurgeon’s day was more associated with this view of ‘eternal
security’, as opposed to the John Wesley Arminiansm, which taught that a
true believer could fall away from true salvation by their works. So the
deadly combination that I speak of is taking this ‘cannot lose your
salvation’ and wedding it with ’salvation is a decision you can make
whenever you want’. Truly, this is the worst of both errors Spurgeon speaked
of, all rolled up into one.

But, not to be mistaken, I do believe in final perseverance in that true
believers will continue in faith and repentance throughout their entire
lives, firm until the end. All who do not do so were not originally saved to
begin with, thus ‘they went out from us because they were not of us’, as the
Apostle John said.

Recall passages such as:

“Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which
you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you
hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.” - 1
Cor 15:1-2

And,

“Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear
lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.” - Heb 4:1

Clearly, this is different than ‘once saved always saved’, but it certainly
isn’t a ‘you can lose your salvation by your works’ view.

Nevertheless, the foundation of misunderstanding these issues is associating
salvation with a mere decision of the will. If it’s a decision, then
consistently you can change your mind. If its just a decision, then
consistently you can abandon it with your works. But if it’s not a decision,
but rather a faith given by God Himself (Eph 2:8-9), a perfection rooted in
Christ’s perfect work/righteousness (John 6:39), and an election rooted in
the eternal decree of God (Eph 1:4), then our hope and faith turns all to
God Himself, and away from ourselves. And our evangelism and calling men to
repent likewise turn to God as well…

Thank you for your comments. Excellent questions/thoughts.

Nathan

Well put because what you said is Scriptural ! Would comment to Nate but you guys have done an excellent job with what you said. I got to go and finish putting some things together for my next preaching series in 1&2 Thessalonians. I have been in the Gospel of John for two years on Sunday mornings. We are teaching James on Wed nights and about to finish Colossians for BFG(Sunday School). BTW, you need to get if you don’t have it : The NIGTC Commentary series. DA Carson almost recommends each book. Charles Wanamaker on 1&2 Thessalonians is great ! Pray for me and my Elders for Saturday. We arre going back to talk to some teenage girls of a family that is going to join our church Sunday( The parents are) but through our interview process found that these girls give no Biblical statements of salvation in their lives. Works and Works however, they are members of a SBC church in Macon. One of them has not even been baptized and when I called to talk to the pastor he was shocked that one of the girls was listed as a member and has not been baptized and has been taking the Lord’s Supper for years. Whether it is the Gospel, Baptism, Regenerate Church membership, or the ordinances I’m not shocked anymore at what I’m seeing as a pastor when we have folks visiting our church. We have had two families that joined in the last seven months that have lived in Gwinnett county and have been members of SBC churches and they both have said that they have never heard that baptism is a prerequisite to the Supper(BFM) or church discipline or heard so much about getting the Gospel right and nothing about singing of hymns, psalms , and spiritual songs(Regulative Principle). We have to undue so much before we can really teach folks today. Keep up the good work on this Blog ! Love you brother !

I was listening to the sermon “Regeneration and Self Denial” by Paul Washer yesterday in conjunction with thinking about these things and it just confirmed that it’s still one of my favorite messages. I’d highly recommend it. If you haven’t listened to it you can find it on SermonIndex.

By the grace of God, Lord willing He will use me in some fashion to proclaim and teach these truths within our church.

In Christ,
Nate

Wish I could make it! What’s he going to be preaching on specifically? (other than the gospel and truth!) I’m with ya brother! He preaches in a way that you can tell that the truth has been literally etched on his soul. I’ve never heard a preacher quite like him either.

Nate

Nate, how do you interpret this passage, then:

Hebrews 6:4-6 “For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt.”

How, exactly, could the Holy Spirit “share” Himself with those whom were not at one point “saved”? This is akin to suggesting that an unbeliever has been granted the gift of the Holy Spirit. Further, how can one “fall away” if they were never in any position to fall? How can one “recrucify” the Son of God?

Haven’t you and I been down this road before? I believe we have, and I don’t really want to get into it all right now. Let me just encourage you to examine the context of the passage you quoted. The book of Hebrews was written to a church well-versed in the Old Testament, and it used language and examples they were familiar with in that regard. The writer here was simply warning them of the dangers of turning back to the old system, the old sacrificial system that is, after they had experienced the reality or the end of which those things pointed to.

Besides, affirming that one can lose their salvation denies the very foundation of ’saved by faith/grace’ altogether, and moves salvation into a Roman Catholic type of system where we are ultimately saved by our goodness rather than Christ’s blood.