So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

We generally take this to mean that these were “born again”. But, why should we? Was not Judas chosen, baptized and even did baptisms, healed, preached the Gospel, yet he was not of the disciples truly; he was not of the number. And we can examine a man named Simon who sought to join himself to the apostles.

Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip.

But Peter says of him:

You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”

We should not then be so quick to accept confessions as signs of faith, nor should we be so quick to baptize in accordance with the GC until we have secured at the minimum some evidences of repentance. “Let them first be tested then let them serve” is an admonition about filtering leadership, however, it seems prudent advice when accepting an “applicant” for discipleship also.

What this would mean is that a church would not be so quick to accept “decisions” and would delay the announcement of numbers until the confirmation process had secured verified confession as a prelude to baptism. Even at that we could be humbled by a baptized confessor who was not a legitimate convert. But, we should be wise and not wishing to do harm, we should seek as much affirmation of the confession as is reasonable both for the sake of the one coming forward and for the sake of the fellowship.

Such are my thoughts…

Another thing I thought of giving your words: if there were false converts under the preaching of Jesus and Peter, how MUCH MORE so today with the preaching of many of today’s teachers! I have listened to some of the sermons which generated the decisions noted in my previous post, and it amazed me people responded at all…because there was nothing said to respond to! The church is so focussed on manufacturing decisions through industrialized manipulation, that they’ve lost the gospel and placed all of their eggs into the basket of numbers-counting to justify their ministry.

Just a thought. Thanks for yours.

manufacturing decisions through industrialized manipulation

Because, the life of Charles Finney just happens to coincide with the industrial revolution. Strange? Not really, trends and fads in the church tend to track the civil sphere too closely. That you should choose those words, however, is just so appropriate.

Now think of this. We have become a near completely non-agrarian culture where most everything we do, use or eat is manufactured by others. We as a civil culture have placed our eggs almost entirely in one basket. And a wrong headed basket at that. A consumer society is a dependent society. Its people cannot produce for themselves. They become slaves to what ever supplier is available. And what ever supply he supplies at what ever price he demands. Today\’s church manufactures faith and adherents, stripping the individual of personal devotion; personal responsibility. The supply and “magical” skills are in the hands of others (not trying to get Marxist here). But, the fact is that with the manipulative methods also comes a false experience of security and one that can only be fed by the one who manipulated in the first place. That requires, always, new entertainments to elicit the “experience.” Can I get a Toronto here? Born is an addictive cycle, a slavery to spirituality void of the Spirit. What a habit to break.

Just another thought.

Funny, I am just finishing up an Anthropology class at my school, Kennesaw State University. We studied the industrial revolution, and in such a liberal, agnostic setting, the material was very, very critical of industrialism and capitalism altogether. Thus, my thoughts have been so centered on studying and thinking about this, I guess my mind just went straight to the language I have been writing about all week in class. But your assessment in comparing our dependence on industrialism and it’s close relation to the church was terrific.

Also, this statement is directly related to this subject, or more specifically the subject of my last post when I mentioned all of the hyper-seeker-sensitive churches:

The fact is that with the manipulative methods also comes a false experience of security and one that can only be fed by the one who manipulated in the first place. That requires, always, new entertainments to elicit the “experience.”

In anything but a clear proclamation of the gospel, what you win them with is what you win them to. Or, in other words, if you bring them into the church with gimmicks and fun, and you win them with emotionalism and forced drama, then in order to keep them in church you’ll have to continually up the ante of the gimmicks and fun, and you’ll have to continue to break their emotions in some way or another, otherwise you lose them. And that is exactly what is happening; people make a decision and as soon as they get bored with that phase of their life, they’re off to the next thing.

stumbled on your blog and enjoyed reading it. Was wondering if you could clarify the following comment for me:

“Sure, I’ve seen a lot of people come and go, but if there is one thing I’m certain of it’s this: when the gospel is proclaimed with the demands that Jesus and the Apostles put on it, and not with a plea for a simple decision or walk forward, then those who respond are very few.”

I’m curious what demands you feel Jesus and the Apostles put on the Gospel in regards to salvation other then belief, or perhaps I’m not understanding your point.

The call and demand for real, radical repentance is not only the theme of
Jesus and the Apostles, but of the entirety of scripture. A prince may
pardon a rebellious faction, but only if they agree to lay down their
swords.

My point is that salvation is seen in these circles as nothing more than a
decision, a belief, and act of one’s will. Jesus and the disciples, on the
other hand, far from trying to get people to ’sign up’, proclaimed a gospel
of turning from evil ways, of dying to self, of taking up your cross and
following Christ, etc. Repentance is the gospel, for even the Demons believe
the gospel.

Another point we must keep in mind is that decision theology undermines the
biblical practice of church discipline. The bible is clear, both Jesus in
Matt 18 and Paul in 1 Cor 5 (and other places) that we are to cast out those
in our midst who profess Christ but who continue in unrepentant sin. Thus,
the gospel of ‘Repentance’ mentioned above is not just a one time
proclamation we make to the church, but it is a continual thing in that
those who do not live an entire life of repentance (not perfection at all,
just repentance) are subject to being cast out of the body in order to keep
the church pure from sinful influences. But the theology of the ‘decision’
mindset undermines this completely, for why would we ever cast out someone
who has made a decision for Christ; why would we ever cast out a believer,
if we define Christianity as a decision??

Therefore, the demands in which so many respond to is the demand that faith
in Christ requires a deep repentance from sin, and a repentance that is not
just one-time, but is life long. Very few nowdays wish to be held to any
kind of standard in this regard; they’d rather make their decision, get
their fire insurance, and politely tell you to stay out of their lives.

I hope that helps. Very good question.