First Baptist Woodstock hosting a ‘John 3:16′ Conference
Mar 3rd, 2008 by Nathan White
Tom Ascol reported today that First Baptist Woodstock will be hosting a ‘John 3:16’ conference in November of this year. More details can be found at Jerry Vines’ website.
This conference specifically interests me, as I am a former member of FBCW (almost 10years), it is located just a few miles from my house, and I interact with many members and former members on a regular basis.
Dr. Ascol expresses some optimism in discussing this conference, particularly in that it is good that Southern Baptist are discussing these issues. I too, somewhat guarded, also hope with sincerity that the conference will cause people to go back and examine the scriptures regarding the issues at hand. However, giving a conference this particular title, and with the lineup scheduled as it is, it would be a stretch to say that there is going to be any serious, in-depth interaction with the scriptural text on these issues, but that is just my personal opinion. Let us hope and pray that the men and women in the pews will do their due diligence, and that the Lord would bless their study of His word –as they look to the Word of God and not simply the word of man.
But given that the conference is apparently built around the passage of John 3:16, I do hope that the speakers are honest and straightforward in their handling of the text, particularly in the following areas:
-The term ‘whosoever’ in John 3:16, and noting that it is actually a descriptive term which more precisely interpreted as ‘all the ones believing’. That is, Jesus was describing the saved by telling Nicodemus what it is they do (believe on the Son given by the Father for the remission of sins).
-That the speakers will give the text in its context, and deal with the very next few sentences, particularly verse 18 which says,
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
Verse 18 is descriptive of the one who does not believe, just as v16 is descriptive of the one who does believe. How does this parallel with verse 16? What does it mean to be ‘condemned already’? How can they be ‘condemned’ if they still have a chance to believe before they die? Wouldn’t that imply that those under condemnation would not have their sins cleansed at the cross?
-An in-depth study of the term ‘born again’; why the term is used, what it signifies, etc. Of course, it seems clear as day that one cannot ‘birth’ themselves naturally, and so it follows that one cannot ‘birth’ themselves spiritually, but these speakers have previously denied this correlation with their position.
-A ‘whole counsel of God’ examination of say, John 6 and John 10 regarding this issue, would also be in the good interest of those honestly searching for the truth.
Nevertheless, if you will be attending the conference, I would encourage you to remember a few of these things in order to verify that all the issues are properly dealt with. As a former member of FBCW of 10 years, and as one who still regularly hears Johnny Hunt preach, I have my serious reservations whether any of the points above will be mentioned even in passing, but one can certainly hope 
Let’s continue to hold our leaders to the standard of God’s Word –and the WHOLE counsel of God.
Nathan, I can also hold out hope that it will be a sunny 87 degrees outside today. Even though I’ve seen the weather forecasts; even though I’ve lived through a few winters and have learned it doesn’t work like that. I mean, yes, I suppose it’s great to be hopeful and optimistic, and to affirm that God can do anything; but He would also have us be observant enough to accurately read the times we live in.
I hope I am wrong, and Dr. Ascol’s seemingly unrestrained optimism is vindicated.
But the prediction I have about this that personally causes me to look forward happily is this: The Reformed and Calvinistic response to the conference will be lightning-fast and overwhelming.
There used to be a day when you could have an event like this one and get away with saying whatever you wanted. Those days are gone, and good riddance.
My cheerful expectation is this: the Scriptural response to whatever is said there will be nearly instantaneous, from many sides.
I encourage Calvinistic SBC bloggers to committ even today to blogging seriously about this conference during the run-up to it, through it, and after it; and to committ to doing so with the intention of seasoning their words with the greatest possible grace and humility; and to base their responses on their own diligent study of the Word of God; and to leave personalities out of the whole deal, from the get-go.
Nathan,
good thoughts on the scripture specifically.
You may or my not know that Dr. James White as a nicely exegeted post on his blog on John 3:16 here:
http://goshareyourfaith.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/john-316-freed-from-tradition/
Nathan,
I’m sure everyone saw this, but perhaps the significance isn’t apparent. There is a $115 registration fee for this event (according to Vine’s website). That kind of $$ is not an incentive for the average 30188 lamb or sheep’s attendance; it’s also a disincentive for outsiders. If you agree with this thinking, then whatreason would they have for charging this kind of $$? Perhaps only ‘church staff’ whose expenses are covered by their congregations, are the target. And why would a reformed pastor ask his congregation to pay for such slurry?
On the OTHER hand, if one pays to attend such an event, haven’t they then BOUGHT the right to speak and challenge what’s said and heard? See where that could go?
Blessings,
The Porterhouse Prince
Robert-
Ya think that Dr. White has them in his sights. Perhaps a shot across the bow, to keep them on course.
I bloggened David Allen. He kinda made me mad. I revised a response I placed at SBC Today. Wes didn\’t like the first one (deservedly so) if you want you can catch it here. You can view both the hot salsa version and right above it the saccharinized still spicy but sweeter version.
I suppose he was testing his pet theory to see how well it would sell to his homeys. I don\’t expect much that will be different. I am not very kind, so Nate, you can kill this link if you want. Ban me, if you must.
$$$
Gordan — I hear you, and agree. But maybe the Beef king has a point about the $. That is, I fear that there might not be any response at all –and that because nobody wants to pay that kind of $ for a conference in which they know they’ll disagree with. It’s like, how can we have a conference on this subject, and yet discourage the bloggers (or whomever) from providing a response to it? Makes you wonder…
BTW– lurkers should definitely check out the link Robert provided above. James White provides an excellent response to the popular traditions surrounding John 3:16. Thanks for the link, Robert.
A little off point, but I found it interesting the Midwestern Seminary’s recent fundraising letter for its newly acquired Spurgeon Library was authored by Jack Graham. I know Spurgeon belongs to more than Calvinistic Baptists, but I thought it was ironic.
Nathan,
No problem on the link. Dr. White constistiently shows himself to be a careful exegete of the word.
We’d go a long way to follow his example. I find that most arguments about what the word says are emotional rather than exegetical. They run more along the lines of “I would never love a God who only saves some!” rather than..”well, I see what you’re saying about the “pas ho pistewn” as designating a specific group, but have you thought about…?”
bob
I have often wondered what “belief” means. Do you consider it an act of the will at all? There are things that I “believe”, even if I don’t always “feel” them to be true. I guess one could consider that doubt, but I think that’s a little different.
For many Christians, I must think it entails a decision. Most of us can’t rely on whether we feel something to be true, since feelings tend to fluctuate with the wind. Being human, our emotions tend to have more power over our minds than I think we admit, and emotions are not always reliable.
However, if it an involves an act of will, one must admit that there is less than compelling evidence for that which we believe. We don’t need to believe in the existence of the sun: its existence is plain to see.
This may not make sense, but I’ve often wondered what constitutes the substance of “faith”.
James,
I think that if you read the preaching of Paul and others, faith is simply, trust in a set of facts.
The fact is that this happened:
God created everything including man.
Adam, the first man, sinned and because of that we have a sinful nature.
We are to be punished for that.
God in his amazing mercy and grace, chose some to save from that fate.
His method, was to give his Son Jesus Christ as a payment of the penalty.
His payment instead of ours.
The way to receive that payment is to repent of your sins, forsake them, and trust in this set of truths as your only hope…because it is.
And as to your second point, you seem to be saying that unless you can see it…then it’s “less than compelling” evidence….
Question: Did George Washington exist?
How do you know?
Have you ever met him?
Have you ever seen anything he’s written?
How can you possibly believe that he existed based on second hand evidence that could be tampered with and faulty?
The truth is; all history is “record” and as such; the bible is a very reliable, well preserved record. It’s historicity isn’t questioned by serious theologians, only the ones who’s aim is to discredit it at any cost.
The bible also does what no other document’s ever done…tell the future with 100% accuracy.
If you’ve never heard of the exercise; please read the post I’ve linked to, it explains the chances of just a few of the prophesies concerning Jesus Christ coming true by chance. Here is the link:
http://goshareyourfaith.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/can-jesus-divinity-be-proven-statistically/
God bless,
bob
Nathan,
If we can each raise the money, how’d you like to put together the old and current Strange Baptist Fire team for this event? We could all come down and stay with folks in the area; perhaps you and Brother Scott could work that part out, and we could go as a group and live blog the Conference. Hey, here’s an idea, perhaps we could raise money by selling T-Shirts, mugs, etc. with the Strange Baptist Fire graphic on them from Cafe Press? It’s time we put that snazzy graphic to good use. I’m sure Frank Turk, aka, Centurion, who helped us with it would help us if we asked. I could probably get James Anderson (Tblog admin) and Tom Ascol to help us promote this. Jim @ Old Truth may be willing to put up a link. Timmy and Andrew might be able to get some SBTS students to buy the stuff.
I propose:
1. We decide how many of us can commit to going if we raise enough cash to cover 1/2 to 100 percent of the money required for the Conference. $115 is steep, but $57.50 is pretty reasonable. I could do that and then pay for food and fuel for the five hour drive down from NC.
2. Allow your church or Scott’s, if they are willing, to administer the fund for us to avoid any suggestions we’re doing this as a gimmick.
3. Any money left over from what is necessary to cover the SBF people who attend should be used to help fund any other Reformed bloggers, pastors, students, etc. who also wish to attend, like a scholarship fund.
4. Set it up so that each attendee registers and pays the initial outlay, presents their receipt to the administering church and then the church reimburses them from the scholarship fund.
5. Continue selling the T-shirts, mugs, etc through December, and give the money to the Lottie Moon offering, through the administering church, in December as a means of thanking the church and using the extra cash that we may not use for evangelism/missions.
Gene,
I love it!!
Count me in with $115 to support the project. Nathan knows I’m good for it.
I have a real angst about so-called ‘men of God’ using a bully-pulpit.’ It’s time to hold them accountable.
Keep us posted.
No more milk and pablum…we want the ‘meat’of His Word.
PP
Gene,
Great idea, and I would be happy to spread the word about it all I can from my blogs, which will get about ten more people involved.
Gene,
That sounds like a good idea. I wish I had room for folks to stay with me, but I really don’t. However, I may be able to find some lodging with some brothers to save some money. I’d be willing to put up links too.
Another strategy for saving the money is to budget a certain amount every month. I imagine the only way they’d stop taking entries is to limit them. I can’t imagine they’d have enough people to fill FBC Woodstock sanctuary. If they do, that’s a lot of potential poor information being feed to thousands of people.
Mark
Would it surprise any of you that, considering the price and the unlikelihood that the mega-sanctuary/civic center will be even mostly filled, this may be a filming session to create a DVD to sell to pastors? The entry fee would defray some of the costs…
Just a thought…
PP
Gentlemen–
I always have room at my house. I have a guest room and I would insist that you stay with me.I also talked with Scott Morgan, and he is willing to house someone, but he is about 45min away from me (I’m about 10 from FBCW, so it’d be an hour to the church from his place).
I’m open to the plan, Gene, but let me think/pray more about my personal involvment. I have many friends and even family that attend FBCW, and I would not want to offend any of them by making it seem that I was looking for a fight. My interaction with Hunt over two years ago still closes doors that would otherwise be open.
Good thoughts and ideas, brothers. Let’s hold our leaders accountable, but strive to do so with love, kindness, and great respect, even if they do not return the same.