Comments on: 2007: A Full Measure of ‘Greater Sin’ http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/ "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...” Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:17:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: James http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1459 James Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:43:21 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1459 I think that as we attempt to draw near God, we become more acutely aware of our own sinfulness, of the dark things that lurk in our hearts. I won't ask you for details, but I can imagine they are probably not foreign to the lives of other believers (if they are honest). I think that we are fortunate that our true selves are revealed to us slowly, otherwise we might despair were we to see things as they are in their shocking entirety. This isn't to excuse our wrongs, but just to suggest that becoming aware of our natures is, though humiliating (and humbling), a gift. We now can no longer look at others with casual condemnation, knowing full well the extent of our own depravity. It forces us, as you say, to rely not on our own virtues, which in reality, are often wanting. The truly pious men I have met always seemed to be painfully aware of their own capacity for evil. I think that as we attempt to draw near God, we become more acutely aware of our own sinfulness, of the dark things that lurk in our hearts. I won’t ask you for details, but I can imagine they are probably not foreign to the lives of other believers (if they are honest).
I think that we are fortunate that our true selves are revealed to us slowly, otherwise we might despair were we to see things as they are in their shocking entirety.

This isn’t to excuse our wrongs, but just to suggest that becoming aware of our natures is, though humiliating (and humbling), a gift. We now can no longer look at others with casual condemnation, knowing full well the extent of our own depravity. It forces us, as you say, to rely not on our own virtues, which in reality, are often wanting.

The truly pious men I have met always seemed to be painfully aware of their own capacity for evil.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1461 Nathan White Mon, 07 Jan 2008 02:30:54 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1461 James, You said:<em> I won’t ask you for details, but I can imagine they are probably not foreign to the lives of other believers (if they are honest).</em> James, maybe I wasn't completely clear, but I attempted to emphasize that it wasn't my outward sins and or the measure of sins this year that led to my thesis. But rather, it was the realization of all I have learned this year and the increase of my knowledge and responsibility that increases guilt. That is, if I were to look at simple actions alone, I am much more 'sanctified', you might say, this year than last. But my point was that, with all our learning and growth, responsibility is increased, and that ultimately, in my opinion, our sins (or better yet, our knowledge of our sins) will increase each and every year until death. Get my point? You said: <em>This isn’t to excuse our wrongs, but just to suggest that becoming aware of our natures is, though humiliating (and humbling), a gift. We now can no longer look at others with casual condemnation, knowing full well the extent of our own depravity. It forces us, as you say, to rely not on our own virtues, which in reality, are often wanting.</em> Exactly! In fact, that is the beauty of Calvinism, in that I cannot give myself credit for any work of grace in my heart. My salvation isn't the result of my smarts, my good decision, my recognizing truth, but is wholly by God's grace alone. And this allows us to look with compassion and humility upon those outside of Christ. James,

You said: I won’t ask you for details, but I can imagine they are probably not foreign to the lives of other believers (if they are honest).

James, maybe I wasn’t completely clear, but I attempted to emphasize that it wasn’t my outward sins and or the measure of sins this year that led to my thesis. But rather, it was the realization of all I have learned this year and the increase of my knowledge and responsibility that increases guilt. That is, if I were to look at simple actions alone, I am much more ’sanctified’, you might say, this year than last. But my point was that, with all our learning and growth, responsibility is increased, and that ultimately, in my opinion, our sins (or better yet, our knowledge of our sins) will increase each and every year until death. Get my point?

You said: This isn’t to excuse our wrongs, but just to suggest that becoming aware of our natures is, though humiliating (and humbling), a gift. We now can no longer look at others with casual condemnation, knowing full well the extent of our own depravity. It forces us, as you say, to rely not on our own virtues, which in reality, are often wanting.

Exactly! In fact, that is the beauty of Calvinism, in that I cannot give myself credit for any work of grace in my heart. My salvation isn’t the result of my smarts, my good decision, my recognizing truth, but is wholly by God’s grace alone. And this allows us to look with compassion and humility upon those outside of Christ.

]]> By: fred http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1465 fred Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:37:25 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1465 Wow, Nathan. This is a great piece and well thought out. I am so aware of the hypocrisy in my own life that I sometimes truly loathe myself. Sometimes it seems that the more true to God I try to be , the more I see the hypocrisy. I think this is God's way of purifying/sanctifying our very minds by humbling us. The more I realise that I can do nothing without Him, even obedience, the more I understand foregiveness and what Christ truly means. We are but grass that fadeth away. Only in Him do we have life, not a life of our own, but one that is hid in Him. Happy New Year in our Lord Jesus Christ! Wow, Nathan. This is a great piece and well thought out. I am so aware of the hypocrisy in my own life that I sometimes truly loathe myself. Sometimes it seems that the more true to God I try to be , the more I see the hypocrisy. I think this is God’s way of purifying/sanctifying our very minds by humbling us. The more I realise that I can do nothing without Him, even obedience, the more I understand foregiveness and what Christ truly means. We are but grass that fadeth away. Only in Him do we have life, not a life of our own, but one that is hid in Him. Happy New Year in our Lord Jesus Christ!

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1466 Nathan White Wed, 09 Jan 2008 03:41:22 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1466 Fred, Great thoughts. Sanctification, unfortunately, often comes through great (and hard) humility. Other thing which I didn't really mention was how I initially looked down on 'all those' people celebrating the new year as if I was so much better than they were. I initially had this mindset, but it didn't take long for the Lord to convict me and reveal to me my own unworthiness as 2007 came to a close. Sobering, and yes, very humbling thoughts. Thanks for your comments. Fred,
Great thoughts. Sanctification, unfortunately, often comes through great (and hard) humility.

Other thing which I didn’t really mention was how I initially looked down on ‘all those’ people celebrating the new year as if I was so much better than they were. I initially had this mindset, but it didn’t take long for the Lord to convict me and reveal to me my own unworthiness as 2007 came to a close. Sobering, and yes, very humbling thoughts.

Thanks for your comments.

]]> By: Thomas Twitchell http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1467 Thomas Twitchell Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:53:15 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1467 I think you've sinned alot more this year than I have Nate ;>) I think you’ve sinned alot more this year than I have Nate ;>)

]]> By: Robert http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1469 Robert Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:47:16 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2008/01/05/2007-a-full-measure-of-greater-sin/#comment-1469 Nathan, Well spoken. This is also my experience. The study of God's word is both beautiful and terrifying. Beautiful for obvious reasons but terrifying because when i do study, I grow in understanding, and understanding of my sins, and then the conviction by the Holy Spirit...that's a hard thing...I'm a proud person who would rather not bend the knee... This usually happens right after I think...I'm doing pretty good... Nathan,
Well spoken. This is also my experience.
The study of God’s word is both beautiful and terrifying. Beautiful for obvious reasons but terrifying because when i do study, I grow in understanding, and understanding of my sins, and then the conviction by the Holy Spirit…that’s a hard thing…I’m a proud person who would rather not bend the knee…

This usually happens right after I think…I’m doing pretty good…

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