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	<title>Comments on: Is New Testament Worship about Fear, or Love?</title>
	<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/</link>
	<description>"Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...”</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Blogosphere: What I&#8217;ve Been Reading, etc&#8230; &#171; Sola Dei Gloria</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1415</link>
		<author>The Blogosphere: What I&#8217;ve Been Reading, etc&#8230; &#171; Sola Dei Gloria</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1415</guid>
					<description>[...] This is a good topic at Shepherd the Flock written by Nathan White: Is New Testament Worship about Fear, or Love?-  He nicely brings out the balance which is sorely needed today. I often wonder why we, as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] This is a good topic at Shepherd the Flock written by Nathan White: Is New Testament Worship about Fear, or Love?-  He nicely brings out the balance which is sorely needed today. I often wonder why we, as [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Powell</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1416</link>
		<author>Tim Powell</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1416</guid>
					<description>I think this is a really compelling question, and unfortunately I think most Western Christians have absolutely zero concept about what it means to fear the Lord. When God is incinerating the top of a mountain, his people cry out for him to stop speaking, because they can't bear it. A lot of Christians I know I think would most likely be thankful that they no longer have a God like that, and that idea works itself out in the way they live and worship. 

My problem now is being among a group of people where this is not largely felt or treasured, and learning how to live in love toward them, and move them toward what Solomon calls 'the beginning of wisdom'. I also think, based on my theology, that I might be more in support of the &lt;i&gt;idea&lt;/i&gt; of fearing than the Lord, than actually fearing him, because I so slightly understand it myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a really compelling question, and unfortunately I think most Western Christians have absolutely zero concept about what it means to fear the Lord. When God is incinerating the top of a mountain, his people cry out for him to stop speaking, because they can&#8217;t bear it. A lot of Christians I know I think would most likely be thankful that they no longer have a God like that, and that idea works itself out in the way they live and worship. </p>
<p>My problem now is being among a group of people where this is not largely felt or treasured, and learning how to live in love toward them, and move them toward what Solomon calls &#8216;the beginning of wisdom&#8217;. I also think, based on my theology, that I might be more in support of the <i>idea</i> of fearing than the Lord, than actually fearing him, because I so slightly understand it myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Svoboda</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1419</link>
		<author>Matt Svoboda</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1419</guid>
					<description>I do think in a lot of circles there is not a lot of reverence and fear of the Lord in our worship...  But in a lot of Calvinistic circles there tends to be a movement to go to far the other way.  A lot of Calvinistic circles put more emphasis on fear and forget the love...  This can be seen in some preaching as well.  Some sermons I have heard could have been preached in Old Testament times!  There definitely needs to be fear and reverence in our worship.  I want to end in saying that we must delight in the Lord in our worship as he delights in us!  Which is with a lot of love, joy, passion... etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think in a lot of circles there is not a lot of reverence and fear of the Lord in our worship&#8230;  But in a lot of Calvinistic circles there tends to be a movement to go to far the other way.  A lot of Calvinistic circles put more emphasis on fear and forget the love&#8230;  This can be seen in some preaching as well.  Some sermons I have heard could have been preached in Old Testament times!  There definitely needs to be fear and reverence in our worship.  I want to end in saying that we must delight in the Lord in our worship as he delights in us!  Which is with a lot of love, joy, passion&#8230; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan White</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1420</link>
		<author>Nathan White</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1420</guid>
					<description>Matt said: &lt;em&gt;But in a lot of Calvinistic circles there tends to be a movement to go to far the other way. A lot of Calvinistic circles put more emphasis on fear and forget the love…&lt;/em&gt;

I would probably be inclined to agree with you, but add that they do this for a good reason. Calvinism gets our eyes off of ourselves and our needs, and it tends to cause sound views of God and man to form in our lives. It brings to the table the reality that religion is not about us, but about God, and He is the focus of our worship. Where I would agree with you, however, is that sometimes Calvinist churches are bent on 'protecting' this view of fear against those who over-emphasis love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt said: <em>But in a lot of Calvinistic circles there tends to be a movement to go to far the other way. A lot of Calvinistic circles put more emphasis on fear and forget the love…</em></p>
<p>I would probably be inclined to agree with you, but add that they do this for a good reason. Calvinism gets our eyes off of ourselves and our needs, and it tends to cause sound views of God and man to form in our lives. It brings to the table the reality that religion is not about us, but about God, and He is the focus of our worship. Where I would agree with you, however, is that sometimes Calvinist churches are bent on &#8216;protecting&#8217; this view of fear against those who over-emphasis love.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Powell</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1422</link>
		<author>Tim Powell</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1422</guid>
					<description>And, at the same time, I think it's impossible to truly love God without fearing him. To paraphrase Amy Carmichael to the point of complete distortion:

&lt;i&gt;You can fear without loving,
but you cannot love without fearing.&lt;/i&gt;

The default position of humanity should be fearing. Those who know him and have been adopted by him only can love him, but their love may not leave fear behind. I do think Jerry Bridges' &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Fearing-God-Jerry-Bridges/dp/1400070643/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#38;s=books&#38;qid=1197526512&#38;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow"&gt;distinction&lt;/a&gt; between &lt;i&gt;servile&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;filial&lt;/i&gt; fear is important to grasp as well. We don't fear God because horror awaits those who have offended holiness. We fear him as children. And only good children fear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, at the same time, I think it&#8217;s impossible to truly love God without fearing him. To paraphrase Amy Carmichael to the point of complete distortion:</p>
<p><i>You can fear without loving,<br />
but you cannot love without fearing.</i></p>
<p>The default position of humanity should be fearing. Those who know him and have been adopted by him only can love him, but their love may not leave fear behind. I do think Jerry Bridges&#8217; <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Fearing-God-Jerry-Bridges/dp/1400070643/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1197526512&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">distinction</a> between <i>servile</i> and <i>filial</i> fear is important to grasp as well. We don&#8217;t fear God because horror awaits those who have offended holiness. We fear him as children. And only good children fear.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Svoboda</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1425</link>
		<author>Matt Svoboda</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1425</guid>
					<description>Well said Tim,

Jesus gave us the commandment to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength.  He didn't say Fear me and Bow.... BUT if we do love him and truly know him we joyfully bow and are naturally inclined to fear God because of our love for him!  Reformed theology has obviously shaped the church in many powerful ways, which is another reason why I hold to it dearly... But my fear is that we try fight the 'American Church' on what it does wrong and we end up going to far and missing the point.  Too many times we make movements, denominations, and trends our enemy when we know that the battle is not against the flesh and blood!

Live the Word
Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Tim,</p>
<p>Jesus gave us the commandment to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength.  He didn&#8217;t say Fear me and Bow&#8230;. BUT if we do love him and truly know him we joyfully bow and are naturally inclined to fear God because of our love for him!  Reformed theology has obviously shaped the church in many powerful ways, which is another reason why I hold to it dearly&#8230; But my fear is that we try fight the &#8216;American Church&#8217; on what it does wrong and we end up going to far and missing the point.  Too many times we make movements, denominations, and trends our enemy when we know that the battle is not against the flesh and blood!</p>
<p>Live the Word<br />
Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Svoboda</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1426</link>
		<author>Matt Svoboda</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1426</guid>
					<description>Nathan,

By the way...You have won over another faithful blogger.  I have read through your blog and I really enjoyed it!  I am excited about your future posts and interaction...

Live the Word
Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>By the way&#8230;You have won over another faithful blogger.  I have read through your blog and I really enjoyed it!  I am excited about your future posts and interaction&#8230;</p>
<p>Live the Word<br />
Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan White</title>
		<link>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1433</link>
		<author>Nathan White</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/12/06/is-new-testament-worship-about-fear-or-love/#comment-1433</guid>
					<description>Matt, glad to have you reading!

Matt, Tim,

Thinking about this issue more, I believe there is a slight misconception in our thinking when we consider how 'mean' God was in the OT (fear) and how 'nice' Jesus is in the NT (love). I believe, of course, that God's nature did not change, but that He simply revealed Himself in different ways at different times. Thus, adding the two together gives us the full picture. However, the disconnect in the NT comes when we look at Jesus' humanity alone. Jesus was clearly meek and lowly before His reurrection (in His humanity), but what of the picture John gives us in Revelation?? John, who was used to being around Jesus, fell as though dead when He appeared in His glory, and the picture that John gives us of that event is anything but meek and lowly.

So we must understand that Jesus was meek and lowly in His humanity, but that He is now ruling and reigning, and the OT picture of God has been restored to Him.

That ought to cause some fear, like it did with John, but of course we can balance that with the fact that He is our high priest, He intercedes with us, and He is aquainted with our weaknesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, glad to have you reading!</p>
<p>Matt, Tim,</p>
<p>Thinking about this issue more, I believe there is a slight misconception in our thinking when we consider how &#8216;mean&#8217; God was in the OT (fear) and how &#8216;nice&#8217; Jesus is in the NT (love). I believe, of course, that God&#8217;s nature did not change, but that He simply revealed Himself in different ways at different times. Thus, adding the two together gives us the full picture. However, the disconnect in the NT comes when we look at Jesus&#8217; humanity alone. Jesus was clearly meek and lowly before His reurrection (in His humanity), but what of the picture John gives us in Revelation?? John, who was used to being around Jesus, fell as though dead when He appeared in His glory, and the picture that John gives us of that event is anything but meek and lowly.</p>
<p>So we must understand that Jesus was meek and lowly in His humanity, but that He is now ruling and reigning, and the OT picture of God has been restored to Him.</p>
<p>That ought to cause some fear, like it did with John, but of course we can balance that with the fact that He is our high priest, He intercedes with us, and He is aquainted with our weaknesses.</p>
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