Comments on: Catechizing http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/ "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...” Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:10:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: scott morgan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1395 scott morgan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:43:41 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1395 Nathan, I'm glad you are catechizing ! My family does this with the Charleston Baptist Association that early Baptist used. Our church does it in the service as well. I like Thomas Watson but what do you do when you get to questions on the church and sacraments ? How do you address this issue ? Do you skip those parts or do you just learn them ? Have you looked at Dr. Nettles book : Teaching Truth and Training Hearts which he has gathered all the Baptist Catechisms into one book ? I like the Charleston one and also Brodaus and Boyce have one as well. Do you agree with all parts of Thomas Watson's catechism ? Nathan,
I’m glad you are catechizing ! My family does this with the Charleston Baptist Association that early Baptist used. Our church does it in the service as well. I like Thomas Watson but what do you do when you get to questions on the church and sacraments ? How do you address this issue ? Do you skip those parts or do you just learn them ? Have you looked at Dr. Nettles book : Teaching Truth and Training Hearts which he has gathered all the Baptist Catechisms into one book ? I like the Charleston one and also Brodaus and Boyce have one as well. Do you agree with all parts of Thomas Watson’s catechism ?

]]> By: Thomas Twitchell http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1396 Thomas Twitchell Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:55:53 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1396 I have not read all this article yet, but I have questions. I have been looking to begin catechetical instruction in my home. My question is have you surveyed the available catechizms and do you recommend the one that you are using above others? Why? I invite others to chime in suggestions. Sorry to butt in here. I have not read all this article yet, but I have questions. I have been looking to begin catechetical instruction in my home. My question is have you surveyed the available catechizms and do you recommend the one that you are using above others? Why? I invite others to chime in suggestions. Sorry to butt in here.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1397 Nathan White Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:18:20 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1397 Scott,   Great question. I was going to mention this in the post, but I decided to try and be as brief as possible.   I have not done a thorough survey of the catechisms, as Watson's is the only one I have in print. I really enjoyed reading through it, so we just picked it up and started using it. Of course, I do not agree with his view on Baptism, but I'm not sure about his views on the sacraments. I do not take a 'memorial' view on the sacraments, so I would assume that I would mostly agree with him on them, but I haven't gone ahead that far just yet (Body of Divinity is like 700 pages).   I must mention, however that the edition that I have was originally published by CH Spurgeon. In the forward he called Watson's Divinity as one of, if not the best Divinity ever written. He mentions that he left the baptism portion intact, but has added his notes/rebuttals in where he disagrees.   I must say that I have immensely enjoyed this work, as it is deeper than any other catechism that I have ever looked into. However, I would be interested in researching some of the ones you mention about (like the Charleston/Boyce/Nettles book).   By the way, aren't you catechizing in your church as well? How wonderful!   I hope you are well, brother. Scott,
 
Great question. I was going to mention this in the post, but I decided to try and be as brief as possible.
 
I have not done a thorough survey of the catechisms, as Watson’s is the only one I have in print. I really enjoyed reading through it, so we just picked it up and started using it. Of course, I do not agree with his view on Baptism, but I’m not sure about his views on the sacraments. I do not take a ‘memorial’ view on the sacraments, so I would assume that I would mostly agree with him on them, but I haven’t gone ahead that far just yet (Body of Divinity is like 700 pages).
 
I must mention, however that the edition that I have was originally published by CH Spurgeon. In the forward he called Watson’s Divinity as one of, if not the best Divinity ever written. He mentions that he left the baptism portion intact, but has added his notes/rebuttals in where he disagrees.
 
I must say that I have immensely enjoyed this work, as it is deeper than any other catechism that I have ever looked into. However, I would be interested in researching some of the ones you mention about (like the Charleston/Boyce/Nettles book).
 
By the way, aren’t you catechizing in your church as well? How wonderful!
 
I hope you are well, brother.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1398 Nathan White Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:19:40 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1398 TT,   I love BOD and cannot recommend it enough. Watson is one of my favorite Puritan writers. I must say, though, that I haven't done a full research of the catechisms; Scott would be the man to answer that one. TT,
 
I love BOD and cannot recommend it enough. Watson is one of my favorite Puritan writers. I must say, though, that I haven’t done a full research of the catechisms; Scott would be the man to answer that one.

]]> By: Denny http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1399 Denny Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:43:44 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1399 I began catechizing my children a few weeks ago. I have an 8 and 3 year old and am using a small children's catechism. My three year old has amazed my wife and I at how quickly he is learning. This was the best thing I have ever done for my family and encourage anyone thinking of catechising their family to begin right away. You can find the catechism I mentioned above here --> <a href="http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/child_cat.html" rel="nofollow">Small Children's Catechism</a> I began catechizing my children a few weeks ago. I have an 8 and 3 year old and am using a small children’s catechism. My three year old has amazed my wife and I at how quickly he is learning. This was the best thing I have ever done for my family and encourage anyone thinking of catechising their family to begin right away. You can find the catechism I mentioned above here –> Small Children’s Catechism

]]> By: scott morgan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1400 scott morgan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:30:14 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1400 Everyone, As a Pastor of a Calvinistic Baptist Church I need to speak this . Catechizing is majorily important but picking the right one is vital. If you are Baptist(Calvinistic) you will want to use the Charleston Baptist Association one which can be found on google. If you are Reformed(Presbyterian) you will want to use the Shorter catechism or what Nathan is using. Calvinistic Baptist differ with Presbyterians on the visible church, baptism, Lord's Supper, and other doctrines. I am about to send out a paper of about 50 pages showing the differences between Calvinistic Baptist and Reformed(Presbyterian). You will see how the older Reformed men differed with the modern Padeobaptist such as Jay Adams, the late Duane Spencer, and James B. Jordan on defining exceptable modes of Baptism. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Baxter, Boston, Goodwin, and Manton speak differently than your modern Padeobaptist on the subject on baptism which will have dictate about which catechism to use. The 50 page is a forward written by Bill Lee of the Baptist Standard Bearer and it is the updated foreward to Abraham Booth's book: A Defense for the Baptist. I was planning on sending it to Nathan. It is factually documented and proves how modern Padeobaptist do not actually align with their forefathers. Everyone,
As a Pastor of a Calvinistic Baptist Church I need to speak this . Catechizing is majorily important but picking the right one is vital. If you are Baptist(Calvinistic) you will want to use the Charleston Baptist Association one which can be found on google. If you are Reformed(Presbyterian) you will want to use the Shorter catechism or what Nathan is using. Calvinistic Baptist differ with Presbyterians on the visible church, baptism, Lord’s Supper, and other doctrines. I am about to send out a paper of about 50 pages showing the differences between Calvinistic Baptist and Reformed(Presbyterian). You will see how the older Reformed men differed with the modern Padeobaptist such as Jay Adams, the late Duane Spencer, and James B. Jordan on defining exceptable modes of Baptism. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Baxter, Boston, Goodwin, and Manton speak differently than your modern Padeobaptist on the subject on baptism which will have dictate about which catechism to use. The 50 page is a forward written by Bill Lee of the Baptist Standard Bearer and it is the updated foreward to Abraham Booth’s book: A Defense for the Baptist. I was planning on sending it to Nathan. It is factually documented and proves how modern Padeobaptist do not actually align with their forefathers.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1401 Nathan White Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:45:48 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1401 Hey Scott, If Spurgeon recommended Watson's BOD above everything else, it's good enough for most if not all Calvinist Baptists, including me :) 1689 LBC Chapt 26.2 says: "All persons throughout the world, professing the faith of the gospel, and obedience unto God by Christ according unto it, not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation, or unholiness of conversation, are and may be called visible saints, and of such ought all particular congregations to be constituted." Hey Scott,

If Spurgeon recommended Watson’s BOD above everything else, it’s good enough for most if not all Calvinist Baptists, including me :)

1689 LBC Chapt 26.2 says:
“All persons throughout the world, professing the faith of the gospel, and obedience unto God by Christ according unto it, not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation, or unholiness of conversation, are and may be called visible saints, and of such ought all particular congregations to be constituted.”

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1402 Nathan White Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:45:03 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1402 Thomas sent me a link that might be helpful for those looking for more information. Founders Ministries has a bunch of good catechisms and articles on such, found <a href="http://www.founders.org/gsearch2.html?cx=008109929302710418596%3Anqvwfobjhca&cof=FORID%3A11&q=catechism&sa=go#919" rel="nofollow">here.</a> Thomas sent me a link that might be helpful for those looking for more information. Founders Ministries has a bunch of good catechisms and articles on such, found here.

]]> By: JP http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1403 JP Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:28:33 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1403 As a UK Reformed Baptist, with a Reformed but baptist view of the sacraments (let's not go there again!) the best Catechism is the one published by <a href="http://www.simpsonpublishing.com/Publications.htm" rel="nofollow">Simpson Publishing </a> Scroll down and you will find "The Shorter Catechsim: A Baptist Version which is the same largly as the Westminster but with obvious changes around baptism and with some clarifying additions from the Westminster Larger (which in my opinion is THE greatest Christian document ever written (mostly :-) ). We have been catechising in our church Sunday School for about 5 years now taking 2 week per Q&A and also our children learn this <a href="http://www.vor.org/rbdisk/proveit.htm" rel="nofollow">catechism</a> . JP As a UK Reformed Baptist, with a Reformed but baptist view of the sacraments (let’s not go there again!) the best Catechism is the one published by Simpson Publishing

Scroll down and you will find “The Shorter Catechsim: A Baptist Version which is the same largly as the Westminster but with obvious changes around baptism and with some clarifying additions from the Westminster Larger (which in my opinion is THE greatest Christian document ever written (mostly :-) ).

We have been catechising in our church Sunday School for about 5 years now taking 2 week per Q&A and also our children learn this catechism .

JP

]]> By: Doug http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1404 Doug Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:50:23 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1404 Nathan, Thanks so much for your post. I am especially excited because my pastor had given me the same BOD with Spurgeon's notes a couple of months ago, but I hadn't opened it yet. Now that I know what I have, I am looking forward to going through it with my wife as well. Thanks again for all you do for the sake of our Lord. Nathan,

Thanks so much for your post. I am especially excited because my pastor had given me the same BOD with Spurgeon’s notes a couple of months ago, but I hadn’t opened it yet. Now that I know what I have, I am looking forward to going through it with my wife as well.

Thanks again for all you do for the sake of our Lord.

]]> By: fred http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1547 fred Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:12:36 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1547 Great piece Nathan. I am teaching a Baptist Catechism, based on 1689 Confession to my 5-8 graders at church. The understanding of Scriptures in our society is at an alarming low point as witnessed by all the minimal and false gospels being propagated on the masses. My heart is that we raise up a generation of young folks grounded in the truths of the faith---yes that dirty word to many--foundational truths. While this catechism is not "high energy" the children don't seem to mind it. Children are not always as we in our society make them out to be. They can sit for an hr if you engage them in questions. I haven't told them that it may take over a year to get through it, but one could probably go quicker than that. I started in Nov, and they are now getting their first test this Sunday on questions 1-24. I think I have got most of them to take it seriously. I did tell them their parents would be posted. Speaking of parents, I would suggest speaking to them, or writing a letter explaining what you are doing, thanking them for allowing you to help guide them in their spiritual maturity as you know that they {parents}take it seriously too. I reminded them that 1 hr a week was not enough and that they to must be engaged and encourage their children in this endeavor by sitting with them and going over what they were taught. I gave each parent a copy of the Catechism. Thanks again for the insight and getting the word out about the catechisms of the Protestant faith. They truly are a great tool. If anyone know of one that is more up to date for this age children, please let me know. "Prove it" is great for smaller children, but a little shallow I think for late elementary and Jr High children. I am using both Spurgeons and J Pipers Desiring God catechisms, but both the languages seem just a little archaic for them. Any help would be appreciated. Great piece Nathan. I am teaching a Baptist Catechism, based on 1689 Confession to my 5-8 graders at church. The understanding of Scriptures in our society is at an alarming low point as witnessed by all the minimal and false gospels being propagated on the masses. My heart is that we raise up a generation of young folks grounded in the truths of the faith—yes that dirty word to many–foundational truths.

While this catechism is not “high energy” the children don’t seem to mind it. Children are not always as we in our society make them out to be. They can sit for an hr if you engage them in questions. I haven’t told them that it may take over a year to get through it, but one could probably go quicker than that. I started in Nov, and they are now getting their first test this Sunday on questions 1-24. I think I have got most of them to take it seriously. I did tell them their parents would be posted.

Speaking of parents, I would suggest speaking to them, or writing a letter explaining what you are doing, thanking them for allowing you to help guide them in their spiritual maturity as you know that they {parents}take it seriously too. I reminded them that 1 hr a week was not enough and that they to must be engaged and encourage their children in this endeavor by sitting with them and going over what they were taught. I gave each parent a copy of the Catechism.

Thanks again for the insight and getting the word out about the catechisms of the Protestant faith. They truly are a great tool. If anyone know of one that is more up to date for this age children, please let me know. “Prove it” is great for smaller children, but a little shallow I think for late elementary and Jr High children. I am using both Spurgeons and J Pipers Desiring God catechisms, but both the languages seem just a little archaic for them. Any help would be appreciated.

]]> By: David Moseley http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1555 David Moseley Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:01:59 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1555 A another good catechism is Luthers Catechism. But if you'r not Lutheran, you might not appreciate the instruction on the Sacraments.(Baptims and Holy Communion. ) A another good catechism is Luthers Catechism. But if you’r not Lutheran, you might not appreciate the instruction on the Sacraments.(Baptims and Holy Communion. )

]]> By: fred http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1556 fred Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:30:45 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1556 Thank you David, Actualy I was catechised Lutheran. I agree it is angood one , but I have become more Reformed in my undrstanding of Scripture and since the church I attend is not Lutheran this would not be an option for me. But I thank God for the Lutheran catechism that I received as a youth. It ground me in the faith. Thank you David, Actualy I was catechised Lutheran. I agree it is angood one , but I have become more Reformed in my undrstanding of Scripture and since the church I attend is not Lutheran this would not be an option for me. But I thank God for the Lutheran catechism that I received as a youth. It ground me in the faith.

]]> By: Thomas Twitchell http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1559 Thomas Twitchell Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:04:03 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1559 fred- <blockquote> It ground me in the faith.</blockquote> Alot of people feel that way ;) fred-
It ground me in the faith.

Alot of people feel that way ;)

]]> By: Diana http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1602 Diana Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:49:43 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/11/27/catechizing/#comment-1602 My church (Reformed Baptist) uses Keach's catechism. I'm not sure how it compares to others since this is the first time we have done any catechism. But what our church does is have all the adults and children of all ages alike in the class at the same time. We have moms saying it and dads saying it, teens, and even 4 yr olds. It is really a great atmosphere. I believe it takes 4 yr for us to get through it as we do one question each week. The pastor teaches the class and really helps us to understand the wording. He goes over every little bit of it and there are worksheets and things so you have a copy of everything he taught. He goes over the meaning of the words and talks about it from the Bible even discussing greek. Each child gleans what they are able and it is really amazing how much they CAN glean at such a young age if we give them the opportunity. All the kids in our class are very eager to be involved. The pastor often asks people to read a Bible verse, or say their catechism etc in front of the class if they would like. They have a spiral book and they get a sticker on their page if they were able to say it. We have actually been able to learn it quite fast (and I am not good at memorizing) simply because our whole family is doing it together. At our last church the high school youth pastor told us that you cant just upen up a book like Romans and teach it to kids or to expect them to know words like propitiation! This was a high school class! Lets not dumb down to kids but get them excited about learning and using their minds for the glory of God. Many very young ones in our class have a very good understanding of those sorts of words. Then during the sermon the pastor will often bring out a catechism question/answer if it applies to what is being said. That helps tremendously to see how it fits in the bigger picture. All that to say that catechism has been a wonderful experience for our family and is increasing our Bible knowledge greatly. My church (Reformed Baptist) uses Keach’s catechism. I’m not sure how it compares to others since this is the first time we have done any catechism. But what our church does is have all the adults and children of all ages alike in the class at the same time. We have moms saying it and dads saying it, teens, and even 4 yr olds. It is really a great atmosphere. I believe it takes 4 yr for us to get through it as we do one question each week. The pastor teaches the class and really helps us to understand the wording. He goes over every little bit of it and there are worksheets and things so you have a copy of everything he taught. He goes over the meaning of the words and talks about it from the Bible even discussing greek. Each child gleans what they are able and it is really amazing how much they CAN glean at such a young age if we give them the opportunity. All the kids in our class are very eager to be involved. The pastor often asks people to read a Bible verse, or say their catechism etc in front of the class if they would like. They have a spiral book and they get a sticker on their page if they were able to say it. We have actually been able to learn it quite fast (and I am not good at memorizing) simply because our whole family is doing it together. At our last church the high school youth pastor told us that you cant just upen up a book like Romans and teach it to kids or to expect them to know words like propitiation! This was a high school class! Lets not dumb down to kids but get them excited about learning and using their minds for the glory of God. Many very young ones in our class have a very good understanding of those sorts of words. Then during the sermon the pastor will often bring out a catechism question/answer if it applies to what is being said. That helps tremendously to see how it fits in the bigger picture.

All that to say that catechism has been a wonderful experience for our family and is increasing our Bible knowledge greatly.

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