The short answer to your question can be demonstrated by looking at the context of the chapter. There is a key, a bottomless pit, a great chain, a dragon, a serpent, etc., all within the first few verses. These are all *symbolic* terms, as the entire book is symbolic.

Thus, the short answer is that we’d be fools for just picking and choosing what we want to take as symbolic and what we want to take ‘literal’.

The rest of the context of the chapter reveals that everything that takes place during this 1000 years is already a reality in the New Testament age: Satan losing control over the nations; believers reigning with Christ; believers being a kingdom and priests to God.

Thus, the overall context and the symbolic nature demands that we consider what ’souls’ really means, and it certainly doesn’t mean bodies.

Next, notice in Revelation 20 that the first resurrection is described as ‘souls’. Souls are not bodies, and many mistake them to be so. So, what is a resurrected soul? Clearly it is the new birth, being raised from the dead, brought to life, i.e, all terms describing)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the

souls

of them that were

beheaded

for the witness of Jesus…

From what I understand 1Thess 5:23 speaks of “spirit, soul, and body.”
1. How is this spiritual resurrection if it says “souls” and not “spirits”
2. How is this spiritual resurrection when it says “souls of them that were “behead” (can souls be behead? Isn’t that talking about the bodies/heads that were beheaded belonging to these souls?)

Your answer is greatly appreciated. Have a great day in the Lord!
-Greis

Many thanks for your comments. I am going to break the conversation off here, for a variety of reasons:

-Your questions are very basic/common objections to my position, and they are answered, and yes refuted, in just about all non-millennium literature. I would encourage you to read up a little more about my position before you so strongly oppose it.

-I have already made it clear that I intend to prove from the New Testament that an exegesis of any and all passages referring to the Second Coming/Resurrection/Judgment lead to no other position than that one resurrection, one judgment, one coming of Christ, one Day of the Lord, and one trumpet are clearly and forcibly taught. I do not have the time to jump into all the passages here, but I welcome you and yes challenge you to interact with me on this subject once I have an opportunity to post again.

-I would encourage you to consider your accusation that I am using eisegesis in light of your own interpretations. Eisegesis is inserting our own ideas into the text rather than simply letting the text speak. If you would like to juxtapose all of the New Testament texts concerning the end times, I promise you that I will stick to the actual wording, as you will be forced to continually insert your own system into the text.

-I would also encourage you to consider that Revelation 20 is a very symbolic text, and that the gospels and epistles do not often use such imagery. Rev 20 speaks of chains, keys, dragons, bottomless pits, etc., and yet, ironically, you take things in this passage very literally, but when I point out in Ephesians chapter 2 that believers have been ‘raised’ and ’seated’ with Christ in the heavenly places, you apparently pass it off as figurative without giving it a second thought! What more do you want? I can show you that everything, everything, that is described in Revelation 20 before the end of the 1000years is spoken of in the *present tense* in other New Testament passages of scripture. But, strangely enough, many are so stuck on a wooden-literal interpretation of Revelation 20 (well, they take some things literal and some things symbolic -depending on what they want the passage to say), that they miss the forest for the trees! Please take your time studying this passage. Interpreting it is not as easy as you may think.

Until future posts on this subject, may God’s grace be with you in the study of His word,

-Nathan

When you read the OT and the prophecies and promises made there, do you see them as national Israel centered or as Christ-centered? In other words, do you think that the many books of the prophets are about the nation of Israel, or are they really about the Christ to come and His work? Christ said the things written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms were about Him: Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

So I see all these promises and prophecies being fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and since they are fulfilled in Him, and I am in Him, then these promises are also made and fulfilled to me.
Ryrie has made the accusation: The covenant theologian in his zeal to make Christ all in all is guilty of superimposing Him arbitrarily on the Old Testament. He does the same with the doctrine of the Church and with the concept of salvation through faith in Christ. (Ryrie)

Statements like these really puzzle me. This is a leading dispensaionalist. How can one read the OT and not see Christ in it, or salvation by faith through Christ, when everything about the tabernacle and sacrifices and priesthood pointed to Christ? How can you not make Christ all in all, when the scriptures say that ALL of the promises God ever made are “yes in Christ?”

As far as how many resurrections and the timing of them, I have a link I can supply you with that lists the scriputres regarding them and provides a pretty clear outline. I will post it if it’s all right with Nathan.

Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here we have the ‘trump of God’ tied to the rapture. I believe this Scripture harmonizes with 1 Cor 15. Both places have a trumpet blasting — the reference in 1 Cor 15 says ‘last’ and this text does not. Paul teaches us that those who are alive when this occurs will be transported to heaven to meet the Lord in the clouds. Not the Mount of Olives as Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 teach is where the Lord Jesus will physically return to earth at the Day of the Lord.

My point is Isaiah 27, especially verse 13 refers to a trumpet that will be blown to regather the Jews. This is at the Day of the Lord and I do not believe the last trump of 1 Cor 15 follows this trump…

Nathan – Thank you for your detailed response. I understand well your position, however I do not believe it to be the doctrine of the apostles and the early Church. When I read the verses above, the Greek word ZAO for ‘lived’ clearly states these souls are now embodied and ‘living’ beings with the benefits and entitlements of a resurrection body. After all, what is the first resurrection if it is only spirit and soul with the Lord as you state? If you want to defend the ‘living soul’ position then you need to understand these are special souls that did not do specific things with regard to the ‘beast’. Where are all of the other saved souls not tied to the beast?

If the souls in Rev 20:4 are souls of saved humans (and they are), then they are already in the presence of the Lord! No, the first resurrection is more than a metaphorical reference to being saved by grace as we live in the world today as you state. Notice verse five above further defines the point of resurrection being the return to ‘life’ by saying the rest of the ‘dead’ – ‘LIVED’ not again until…

These verses are clearly teaching the two resurrections separated by a period of time (I take the 1000 literally and you do not) – the first being saved souls which are reunited with resurrection bodies and the second resurrection being lost souls which are reunited with their physical bodies.

You mentioned in one of your earlier posts that Revelation 20 doesn’t place the events of it with Israel per se. What then is the ‘beloved city’? Is it not Jerusalem? Please see Strongs for information on this text.

You also say – “The second resurrection, which involves all those in the tombs, which refers to physical bodies, occurs for both the just and the unjust.
Thus, the first resurrection in Rev 20 is souls, as the text says, and the second resurrection is the physical resurrection, which happens upon Christ’s Second Coming.”

The Bible makes it clear there are only two resurrections. The first is the resurrection of the ‘just’ and the second is the resurrection of the ‘unjust’. You are tying the receipt of your glorified body to the resurrection of the ‘unjust’!

The Bible nowhere teaches a ‘resurrection of souls’! It only teaches the resurrection of dead bodies. That is what resurrection is all about – dead bodies coming back to life. To say that Revelation 20:3-5 refers to mankind being saved as a type of resurrection is eisegesis to fit your eschatological framework.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

This verse teaches us that there are two resurrections. The timing is not the same and the results are not the same either. The saved person receives a glorified body at the resurrection of the just. The lost person receives their physical body back so that he can be judged at the GWTJ and then punished forever in the Lake of Fire.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but I do not see where the Bible teaches the resurrection of souls symbolically or literally. Once a believer dies, their soul immediately goes to be with the Lord. That saved soul waits in heaven for the time of the resurrection of the just to receive its glorified body… Likewise the lost soul goes to Hell (Luke 16) and awaits its final judgment at the GWTJ where the decayed body of that soul will be resurrected and united back with it for the judgment and ultimate sentencing to the Lake of Fire.

Even Ephesians 2 talks of being dead in our trespasses and sins and then are made alive in Christ to newness of life. Certainly one must be born again of the Spirit to be saved and that is what this teaches, but I do not see these verses jumping to the specifics of a resurrection body. The glorified body is a benefit of the new birth and it will be obtained at the resurrection of the just in 1 Cor 15. I think one of the disagreements you and I have on this issue is you want to take one chapter (1 Cor 15) for example and make it fit your position. I think we must take all of the chapters that deal with the resurrections and put them all together to understand the fullness of the teaching. I know Revelation 20 is not a chapter your position likes, but it CLEARLY puts a time period between the resurrection of the just and unjust. If this is Scripture, and it is, then why do you try to make these two resurrections simultaneous?

I appreciate your questions, as they are good ones. Let me just suggest to you that most of these are very common objections to Covenantal/Amillennial teaching, and so they are dealt with in almost all Covenantal/Amillennial writings. I would strongly encourage you to read some of this material, even though you disagree, so that you better understand the position, and so you can see why so many of believers down through the centuries have held to these things. I once held to dispensational/premill, and asked a lot of the same questions you are asking, but when I read the other side, I became convinced of the opposing view.

First, I see absolutely no scriptural justification for more than one ‘last’ trumpets.

Secondly, yes, 1 Cor 15 deals with the resurrection of believers, which comes at Christ’s Second Coming.

Next, notice in Revelation 20 that the first resurrection is described as ‘souls’. Souls are not bodies, and many mistake them to be so. So, what is a resurrected soul? Clearly it is the new birth, being raised from the dead, brought to life, i.e, all terms describing salvation. Jesus summed this up nicely in John chapter 5:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Compare this with Revelation 20, and you will see how we describe the supposed ‘two’ resurrections. The first one is spiritual, as Jesus says ‘an hour…is now here’, meaning that it is something taking place right now. The second resurrection, which involves all those in the tombs, which refers to physical bodies, occurs for both the just and the unjust.

Thus, the first resurrection in Rev 20 is souls, as the text says, and the second resurrection is the physical resurrection, which happens upon Christ’s Second Coming.

Next, regarding your response to Hannah, the thesis of my post (which you obviously don’t agree with) is that true Christians are a part of the true Israel of God. Thus, as Paul said, if we are in Christ through faith, we are children of Abraham (synonym for being a Jew), and heirs according to the promises. So whatever promises were given to Israel in the OT are promises that we Christians will partake in, therefore negating the fact that these promises will be fulfilled in the political, secular realm. The new heavens and the new earth, the new Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven, is the fulfillment of these promises, and all who are in Christ will partake.

And, Jesus told the apostles they would have a specific job in the future judging the twelve tribes of “Israel”…

IMHO, this verse does not apply to many other places in the OT where the Lord specifically addresses His restoration of national Israel (the saved remnant) that is divinely protected and gathered back into the land prior to the Day of the Lord. As we have previously established — in Christ there is no distinction of Jew or Greek. Certainly this is true and further clarified by the fact that through all of history there will be only two resurrections — one for the just(in Christ) and one for the unjust(those who are not saved).

Whether one believes the 1000 years to be literal or some undefined epoch, we clearly note that the resurrection of the just and unjust are separated by this epoch defined in that chapter to be 1000 years. So if you believe we are living in Revelation 20 now, when did the resurrection of the just take place as defined in 1 Cor 15?

I think you would agree the Great White Throne judgment has not taken place and therefore the resurrection of the unjust which occurs prior to the GWTJ has not happened yet. If I’m not mistaken you take 1 Cor 15 to include both resurrections?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I must say that I agree with Hannah’s response. That was excellent, and I would simply encourage you to deeply consider her words and the scriptures provided, no matter what position you ultimately hold to.

But I appreciate your comments here. They have been challenging, and I hope that we can ’sharpen’ each other as iron sharpens iron. I also want to mention that this is just the first post of many on this subject, so you will eventually get the big picture of my argument.

Now, to briefly address your questions, as if I could add to Hannah’s words:

You said: Obviously Luke 22:18 states God’s kingdom shall come and we see that when it does come Jesus will drink of the vine with the apostles once again.

God’s providence is amazing, as I was meditating on this verse yesterday before you posted this! I would simply say that this refers to the New Jerusalem; the new heavens and earth that we will enjoy, in Christ, throughout eternity. Just because wine is mentioned in now way forces us to conclude that the kingdom is a temporary, earthly one. Plus, in the Matthew account, Jesus declares it as His Father’s kingdom, which identifies it with eternity (cross reference this term with 1 Cor 15:24, where Jesus hands the kingdom to the Father for eternity).

You said: We see in Matthew 19 and Luke 22 that Jesus promises the apostles twelve thrones to ‘judge the twelve tribes of Israel’. The only way this makes sense to me is in light of the truth God still has plans for national Israel in the future because Jesus says so

Yes– and I haven’t studied these verse in any great detail, but the apostles on the thrones, I believe, either refers to the Apostles being the foundation of the church, and/or the reign of the saints described in Revelation 20, and/or the prominence of the Apostles throughout eternity, and/or the Apostles’ role at the Great White Throne of judgment. Regardless, remember, I believe that we are living in the period described in Revelation 20, which would have the Apostles and other saints reigning with Christ at this present time. Couple this description with what IS clearly taking place right now, Eph 2:4-6, Col 3:1, and you can see that the saints have been raised to the heavenly places, in Christ, and by our participation in His body, we are reigning, right now.

You said: I believe these ‘big picture’ verses further affirm there will be a time of ruling and judgment to include the 12 apostles and the twelve tribes of Israel prior tto the END when the kingdom is delivered to God when all rule and all power and all authority is put down and the last enemy, death, is destroyed.

I would encourage you to study 1 Cor 15 very closely. This is the chapter that finally forced me to abandon premillennialism. Notice that you place a 1000year period between the verses15:23, “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming”, and 15:24, “Then [cometh] the end, when…”. Now, I have great difficulty in putting a 1000year period between ‘His coming’, and ‘the end’, but obviously others run to various other passages and force this millennium in there.

Secondly, you recognize above that the LAST enemy to be destroyed is death. But have you ever considered WHEN it is that death is destroyed? Paul in this chapter confirms that it is when the righteous are raised! See verses 51-55 of this same chapter. Paul says that, first, we will all be changed in a moment, at the last trumpet. And above, in verse 23, he confirms that ‘every man’, in Christ, will be raised ‘at His coming’. So, back to verses 51-55, where Paul then describes the new body (53-54), and then says: “When the perishable puts on the imperishable…then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory…”

Thus, this passage teaches us that the dead in Christ are raised at His coming, which is the defeat of death, the last enemy, and that upon our resurrection, then comes the end, when Jesus delivers the kingdom to His father.

V23, and V51-52: Christ comes and we are raised.
V26: Death is the very last enemy.
V24: There is nothing left after the last enemy, except eternity.
V54: When we are raised, death is defeated.

May the Lord bless our study of His word.

–
Nathan