Comments on: Michael Vick: An Unprecedented ‘Fall from Grace’ http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/ "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...” Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:04:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Bryan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-796 Bryan Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:37:53 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-796 Excellent post. Certainly he fell into the trap that great athletes quite often can, that being to think that they are above it all. I am sure he has always been able to get to the front of the line, to always receive special treatment, and that builds up in one, or at least it can, a feeling that there is nothing that I cannot do, for after all, he is beloved in Atlanta, he does make so much money, have so many endorsement deals, etc. Obviously, when we have such an out of proportion view of ourselves, we are just setting ourselves up for a fall. And Michael Vick appears to have taken that fall. May God help him in this time and may he find repentance from God through His Son. Excellent post. Certainly he fell into the trap that great athletes quite often can, that being to think that they are above it all. I am sure he has always been able to get to the front of the line, to always receive special treatment, and that builds up in one, or at least it can, a feeling that there is nothing that I cannot do, for after all, he is beloved in Atlanta, he does make so much money, have so many endorsement deals, etc.

Obviously, when we have such an out of proportion view of ourselves, we are just setting ourselves up for a fall. And Michael Vick appears to have taken that fall. May God help him in this time and may he find repentance from God through His Son.

]]> By: Gordan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-797 Gordan Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:52:52 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-797 Nathan, I think it also (in addition to Total Depravity) tends to prove the truth of the deceitfulness of riches and what the old King James might call "vainglory." Vick had it all, but it wasn't enough. Vick had it all, and now it's all going away very quickly. I'm not a huge fan of John Wesley, but he understood the power of money to undermine the man of God. He said something like, "Whenever I get some money, I give it away as soon as possible, lest it find a way into my heart." Nathan, I think it also (in addition to Total Depravity) tends to prove the truth of the deceitfulness of riches and what the old King James might call “vainglory.” Vick had it all, but it wasn’t enough. Vick had it all, and now it’s all going away very quickly.

I’m not a huge fan of John Wesley, but he understood the power of money to undermine the man of God. He said something like, “Whenever I get some money, I give it away as soon as possible, lest it find a way into my heart.”

]]> By: Dax http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-799 Dax Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:49:57 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-799 It's almost as deplorable as cat juggling, many a life was wasted to this unthinkable depravity, until Navin Johnson, out of the excess of his Opti-Grab fortune, put an end to it in the late seventies. I am intrigued by this culture that is so enamored by the Pitt Bull, I have some friends who are teenage boys who are very poor, but somehow they find money to buy $400 pit bulls. Really it's a pretty fitting idol for the gang culture with which they try so desperately to identify. There seems to really be a misplaced method of fatherhood, one on which the pit bull can successfully be raised to be a champion fighter (or die), but on which a boy simply rapidly becomes an angry, stubbornly unrepentant criminal. It's sad that they will argue for hours with me about how Tupac is still alive, but they dismiss the story of Christ raising from the dead out right. Something about the whitewashed Jesus of Sunday school just doesn't strike within them the same awe as does a filthy mouthed gangster rapper or a pit bull. It surely does go to the issue of depravity in that our natural selves will never repent apart from the power of God within us, however we also must present the <strong>whole</strong> Gospel in order to produce Biblically sound disciples. "Gentle Jesus" although factual, is a hard place to start when trying to lead a violent culture to hear the Gospel. Besides, the fact that Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart" is made much more significant in light of the awesome power of who he is and in the unapproachable nature of the Holiness of God. It's hard to overcome the image of the sissy Jesus that many people have in their minds, a good place to start though might be Rev. 19: <blockquote>11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.</blockquote> It’s almost as deplorable as cat juggling, many a life was wasted to this unthinkable depravity, until Navin Johnson, out of the excess of his Opti-Grab fortune, put an end to it in the late seventies.

I am intrigued by this culture that is so enamored by the Pitt Bull, I have some friends who are teenage boys who are very poor, but somehow they find money to buy $400 pit bulls. Really it’s a pretty fitting idol for the gang culture with which they try so desperately to identify. There seems to really be a misplaced method of fatherhood, one on which the pit bull can successfully be raised to be a champion fighter (or die), but on which a boy simply rapidly becomes an angry, stubbornly unrepentant criminal. It’s sad that they will argue for hours with me about how Tupac is still alive, but they dismiss the story of Christ raising from the dead out right. Something about the whitewashed Jesus of Sunday school just doesn’t strike within them the same awe as does a filthy mouthed gangster rapper or a pit bull. It surely does go to the issue of depravity in that our natural selves will never repent apart from the power of God within us, however we also must present the whole Gospel in order to produce Biblically sound disciples.

“Gentle Jesus” although factual, is a hard place to start when trying to lead a violent culture to hear the Gospel. Besides, the fact that Jesus is “gentle and lowly in heart” is made much more significant in light of the awesome power of who he is and in the unapproachable nature of the Holiness of God. It’s hard to overcome the image of the sissy Jesus that many people have in their minds, a good place to start though might be Rev. 19:

11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

]]> By: Animal Chaplain Nancy http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-801 Animal Chaplain Nancy Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:02:34 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-801 As the Chair of Animal Chaplains.com, I have been horrified to learn about dogfighting and the cruel torturing, maiming, and killing that takes place in it. I am saddened that celebrities like athlete Michael Vick and rapper DMX have been implicated in such unbelievably bloody crimes. The blogosphere seems to focus on the wrong questions, IMHO. Instead of, "Are animals as important as humans?", the real question should be, "Do animals suffer?" Like humans, animals are sentient beings who feel pain. That is not only an intuitive reality, but a scientific fact. We are instructed by all of the worlds major faiths to care for animals in responsible, loving ways. It is our moral and spiritual obligation to protect them. Please join us on October 4th, 2007, in cities all around the world to celebrate "World Animal Day". On that day, animals will be blessed and honored, and we will hopefully all realize how lucky we are to have them in our world. For more information, search on the words "World Animal Day" for a celebration near you. Nancy J. Cronk Founder, Chair and Chaplain Interfaith Association of Animal Chaplains www.AnimalChaplains.com As the Chair of Animal Chaplains.com, I have been horrified to learn about dogfighting and the cruel torturing, maiming, and killing that takes place in it. I am saddened that celebrities like athlete Michael Vick and rapper DMX have been implicated in such unbelievably bloody crimes. The blogosphere seems to focus on the wrong questions, IMHO. Instead of, “Are animals as important as humans?”, the real question should be, “Do animals suffer?”

Like humans, animals are sentient beings who feel pain. That is not only an intuitive reality, but a scientific fact. We are instructed by all of the worlds major faiths to care for animals in responsible, loving ways. It is our moral and spiritual obligation to protect them. Please join us on October 4th, 2007, in cities all around the world to celebrate “World Animal Day”. On that day, animals will be blessed and honored, and we will hopefully all realize how lucky we are to have them in our world. For more information, search on the words “World Animal Day” for a celebration near you.

Nancy J. Cronk
Founder, Chair and Chaplain
Interfaith Association of Animal Chaplains
www.AnimalChaplains.com

]]> By: Dax http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-803 Dax Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:10:34 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-803 Hey maybe it was a fall TO Grace: Vick says he found Jesus: <a href="http://www.tmz.com/tmz_main_video?titleid=1155331252" rel="nofollow">http://www.tmz.com/tmz_main_video?titleid=1155331252</a> Hey maybe it was a fall TO Grace:

Vick says he found Jesus:

http://www.tmz.com/tmz_main_video?titleid=1155331252

]]> By: Animal Chaplain Nancy http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-806 Animal Chaplain Nancy Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:45:17 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-806 It is hard to believe Michael Vick has completely transformed overnight. His father and friends and neighbors have reported in other articles he has been torturing animals since he was a kid (siccinig dogs on cats in lumberyards, etc.). Could any of this have to do with his sentencing coming up??? I am glad he told kids not to do what he did, whether he was sincerely sorry he hurt animals, or not. My son bought it. Personally, I will need to see him donate all of his money to charity, or pledge to spend his life helping others before I believe he has become a better person - not just spend a year thinking that he will be forced to spend in jail anyway. As for me, I will continue to teach people that every major faith in the world is against dogfighting. Animal Chaplain Nancy Cronk www.AnimalChaplains.com It is hard to believe Michael Vick has completely transformed overnight. His father and friends and neighbors have reported in other articles he has been torturing animals since he was a kid (siccinig dogs on cats in lumberyards, etc.). Could any of this have to do with his sentencing coming up???

I am glad he told kids not to do what he did, whether he was sincerely sorry he hurt animals, or not. My son bought it. Personally, I will need to see him donate all of his money to charity, or pledge to spend his life helping others before I believe he has become a better person - not just spend a year thinking that he will be forced to spend in jail anyway.

As for me, I will continue to teach people that every major faith in the world is against dogfighting.

Animal Chaplain Nancy Cronk
www.AnimalChaplains.com

]]> By: Dax http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-808 Dax Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:39:09 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-808 <blockquote>Personally, I will need to see him donate all of his money to charity, or pledge to spend his life helping others before I believe he has become a better person</blockquote> Wow, that's quite a standard. Do you hold everyone to it? I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that confessing the sin, and putting it all in Jesus' hands is a good turnaround for me, providing he evidences his turnaround by living a changed life. I'm not saying this to say that he should not be punished for what he did, but as far as he and God are concerned, it sounds like a good start to me.

Personally, I will need to see him donate all of his money to charity, or pledge to spend his life helping others before I believe he has become a better person

Wow, that’s quite a standard. Do you hold everyone to it?

I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that confessing the sin, and putting it all in Jesus’ hands is a good turnaround for me, providing he evidences his turnaround by living a changed life. I’m not saying this to say that he should not be punished for what he did, but as far as he and God are concerned, it sounds like a good start to me.

]]> By: Animal Chaplain Nancy http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-809 Animal Chaplain Nancy Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:09:56 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-809 No sir, I do not hold those standards for anyone - I am trying to make a point. I am just suggesting that the "one year of thinking" he agrees to do is like a grain of sand in an ocean of what should be repentence, IMHO. The man tortured, abused and killed innocent animals - animals who feel pain and who suffered greatly as they died. I realize many people do not understand the nature of dog fighting and just how cruel it really is. These animals have their flesh torn off and their bones broken, if they survive the fights. Then, they rarely get medical care, and they are often chained up in the elements to feel pain until they die. The nature of dogfighting is that the criminals who enjoy the sport no longer see these creatures as feeling, living beings. If you have not seen these images, google "dogfighting" and choose "images" on the task bar. There are some on my site, but I did not even choose the worst to display. The Bible teaches all of us to care for animals. Rather than go into the entire breath of scripture here, I ask you to check out my website - www.AnimalChaplains.com, for a listing. I believe caring for animals goes hand in hand with caring for humans. They are both basic elements of a civilized society. Just as I cannot walk away from abused children, abused elderly people, those who are starving, I cannot walk away easily from abused animals. I hope you can't either. Thank-you for your thoughtful comment. Yours in Spirit and peace, Chaplain Nancy No sir, I do not hold those standards for anyone - I am trying to make a point. I am just suggesting that the “one year of thinking” he agrees to do is like a grain of sand in an ocean of what should be repentence, IMHO. The man tortured, abused and killed innocent animals - animals who feel pain and who suffered greatly as they died.

I realize many people do not understand the nature of dog fighting and just how cruel it really is. These animals have their flesh torn off and their bones broken, if they survive the fights. Then, they rarely get medical care, and they are often chained up in the elements to feel pain until they die. The nature of dogfighting is that the criminals who enjoy the sport no longer see these creatures as feeling, living beings. If you have not seen these images, google “dogfighting” and choose “images” on the task bar. There are some on my site, but I did not even choose the worst to display.

The Bible teaches all of us to care for animals. Rather than go into the entire breath of scripture here, I ask you to check out my website - www.AnimalChaplains.com, for a listing. I believe caring for animals goes hand in hand with caring for humans. They are both basic elements of a civilized society. Just as I cannot walk away from abused children, abused elderly people, those who are starving, I cannot walk away easily from abused animals. I hope you can’t either.

Thank-you for your thoughtful comment.

Yours in Spirit and peace,
Chaplain Nancy

]]> By: David Mathews http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-810 David Mathews Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:55:34 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-810 I think what Michael Vick did was wrong. What he did was sinful. He should be punished for his illegal actions, just as I believe any other citizen should be punished for any infraction of the laws of this land. However, I do think this whole incident is indicitive of the times that we live in. Athletes can rape, kill, and do all manner of evil against their fellow MAN, and there is a small penalty (if any), a slap on the wrist, and a politically correct warning. Thousands of unborn BABIES are murdered each year and nobody even seems to notice. PEOPLE are dying due to starvation and genocide all around the world. Most people hate the one true God, and nobody cares about anything but Dogs. I think what Michael Vick did was wrong. What he did was sinful. He should be punished for his illegal actions, just as I believe any other citizen should be punished for any infraction of the laws of this land. However, I do think this whole incident is indicitive of the times that we live in. Athletes can rape, kill, and do all manner of evil against their fellow MAN, and there is a small penalty (if any), a slap on the wrist, and a politically correct warning. Thousands of unborn BABIES are murdered each year and nobody even seems to notice. PEOPLE are dying due to starvation and genocide all around the world. Most people hate the one true God, and nobody cares about anything but Dogs.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-811 Nathan White Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:45:09 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-811 Yeah, it's pretty sad when you can go down and buy a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rae_Carruth" rel="nofollow">Rae Carruth</a> jersey at nfl.com (murdered his pregnant girlfriend), a Ray Lewis jersey at nfl.com (stood and watched while his friends brutally killed two people), and an OJ Simpson jersey at nfl.com, but a Vick jersey?? No way! Those have all been pulled from the market. Yeah, it’s pretty sad when you can go down and buy a Rae Carruth jersey at nfl.com (murdered his pregnant girlfriend), a Ray Lewis jersey at nfl.com (stood and watched while his friends brutally killed two people), and an OJ Simpson jersey at nfl.com, but a Vick jersey?? No way! Those have all been pulled from the market.

]]> By: Gordan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-812 Gordan Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:37:56 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-812 What Vick needs to do is find a way to blame his actions on an altered state of mind brought on by Global Warming. Get the liberal, PC crowd on your side, see. What Vick needs to do is find a way to blame his actions on an altered state of mind brought on by Global Warming. Get the liberal, PC crowd on your side, see.

]]> By: J.R. Lee http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-818 J.R. Lee Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:04:49 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-818 Since you are a Cowboys fan...it is apparant that my prayers must increase on your behalf.... Hope you guys are doing great. Since you are a Cowboys fan…it is apparant that my prayers must increase on your behalf….

Hope you guys are doing great.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-830 Nathan White Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:50:06 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/08/21/michael-vick-an-unprecedented-fall-from-grace/#comment-830 J.R. Hey now, after the Cowboys big win the other night, I'm feeling goooood! :) J.R.

Hey now, after the Cowboys big win the other night, I’m feeling goooood! :)

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