Comments on: ‘Keep the Sabbath Holy’: Ceremonial? http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/ "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...” Thu, 24 Jun 2010 19:19:27 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: lennox fraser http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-2940 lennox fraser Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:49:11 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-2940 I am a seventh day adventist and there are times that I had purchase food and bought clotheing for people in need on the sabbath . God is interesting in motives more than anything else. David or Jesus breaking the sabbath does not mean that the sabbath must be abolished. The intent of the heart and Gods mercy is what saved the woman found in adultry,King David, the disciples and myself for shoping on the sabbath for the needy. We are still obligated to keep the sabbath even though we may break it now and then. The life of ST. Paul more so in actions( " as his custom was, entered the synagogue on the sabbath," attended jewish penticost, performed jewish purificaton,and obligated the gentile christians to obey one of the most jewish law which was not to eat an animal that has been strangled because the life of the animal is in the blood ,therefore one is not allowed to eat the blood of an animal because of what it represented.) I can begin to tell you how much the sabbath has been a blessing for me and my family. I think one of the reason why so many people find it dificult to keep the sabbath is because it is a 24 hour holy day, and we ask ourselves what am I going to do for an entire day besides rest from work. Jesus demonstraed that Him and his Father are doing good works for the salvation of man on the sabbath. Its about good works or the type of work that matters. The bible says" not doing our own works or finding our own pleasures" but by performing deeds of good on the sabbath is what counts. Those who performe good deeds on the Sabbath( police officers, hospitals , fire house,etc. ) The pharasies perverted the sabbath to the extent that it had become a Yoke and a burden . There are over 613 commandments found in both the Torah and the Pentatouch . The Pharisies were in command of the Oral Torah which was the interpretation of the The written Torah given by Moses including the Pentatouch. For many centuries, the these laws have been superimposed on the basic laws of God. Jesus came to so to speak:removed these many layers and to reveal to man the true nature of the sabbath so that it becomes a blessing and not a curse. What we need to understand is the the death sentence that God put on five of the commanment in the old testament is still with us today. If you and I continue to sin deliberatly and do not ask God for forgivness, the time will come at a later period in which we will be punished enternally for these sins that we did not confess. Because of the covenant that God made with the children of Israel, the permission was given to man by God to execute punisment of breaking these commandments We must forget context!. The sabath has been a blessing to me and my family in that besides attend church and not work for money, we allso spend many hours attending to the needs of people in our community ,both physical,emotional and spritual needs that has nothing to do with doctrinal. I am a seventh day adventist and there are times that I had purchase food and bought clotheing for people in need on the sabbath . God is interesting in motives more than anything else. David or Jesus breaking the sabbath does not mean that the sabbath must be abolished. The intent of the heart and Gods mercy is what saved the woman found in adultry,King David, the disciples and myself for shoping on the sabbath for the needy. We are still obligated to keep the sabbath even though we may break it now and then. The life of ST. Paul more so in actions( ” as his custom was, entered the synagogue on the sabbath,” attended jewish penticost, performed jewish purificaton,and obligated the gentile christians to obey one of the most jewish law which was not to eat an animal that has been strangled because the life of the animal is in the blood ,therefore one is not allowed to eat the blood of an animal because of what it represented.) I can begin to tell you how much the sabbath has been a blessing for me and my family. I think one of the reason why so many people find it dificult to keep the sabbath is because it is a 24 hour holy day, and we ask ourselves what am I going to do for an entire day besides rest from work. Jesus demonstraed that Him and his Father are doing good works for the salvation of man on the sabbath. Its about good works or the type of work that matters. The bible says” not doing our own works or finding our own pleasures” but by performing deeds of good on the sabbath is what counts. Those who performe good deeds on the Sabbath( police officers, hospitals , fire house,etc. ) The pharasies perverted the sabbath to the extent that it had become a Yoke and a burden . There are over 613 commandments found in both the Torah and the Pentatouch . The Pharisies were in command of the Oral Torah which was the interpretation of the The written Torah given by Moses including the Pentatouch. For many centuries, the these laws have been superimposed on the basic laws of God. Jesus came to so to speak:removed these many layers and to reveal to man the true nature of the sabbath so that it becomes a blessing and not a curse. What we need to understand is the the death sentence that God put on five of the commanment in the old testament is still with us today. If you and I continue to sin deliberatly and do not ask God for forgivness, the time will come at a later period in which we will be punished enternally for these sins that we did not confess. Because of the covenant that God made with the children of Israel, the permission was given to man by God to execute punisment of breaking these commandments We must forget context!. The sabath has been a blessing to me and my family in that besides attend church and not work for money, we allso spend many hours attending to the needs of people in our community ,both physical,emotional and spritual needs that has nothing to do with doctrinal.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-548 Nathan White Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:29:54 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-548 Alan, Amen, brother. Excellent comment. Alan,

Amen, brother. Excellent comment.

]]> By: Alan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-547 Alan Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:42:03 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-547 There is considerable confusion about what is a moral or a ceremonial law. The ceremonies pointed to Christ as the Messiah and redeemer and the atoning sacrifice for sin. They served a temporary time period before Christ appeared. The Sabbath, theologically, has nothing temporary about it. It points back to the Creator, and to our human origin as created in God's image; it points to the cross, in that weekly, we rest from our own efforts to save ourselves, and rest in the atoning ministry of Christ; it points forward to the Second coming, when all will be restored, and we receive the fruits of the atonement, eternal life with Christ. We enjoy the ultimate rest. Theologically, the Sabbath does not belong to any time period, but truly "was made for man" as Jesus declared. We still need a Sabbath rest today, as Paul declared in Hebrews that a rest remains. We need to rest, physically, spiritually, emotionally, and yes, we need a break from the incessant tug of the world, AND its entertainments! Let's spare the video games, television, newspapers, and things of the world, and spend time in worship, with our families, in fellowship, in active recreation, and in service to God and man. There is considerable confusion about what is a moral or a ceremonial law. The ceremonies pointed to Christ as the Messiah and redeemer and the atoning sacrifice for sin. They served a temporary time period before Christ appeared. The Sabbath, theologically, has nothing temporary about it. It points back to the Creator, and to our human origin as created in God’s image; it points to the cross, in that weekly, we rest from our own efforts to save ourselves, and rest in the atoning ministry of Christ; it points forward to the Second coming, when all will be restored, and we receive the fruits of the atonement, eternal life with Christ. We enjoy the ultimate rest.

Theologically, the Sabbath does not belong to any time period, but truly “was made for man” as Jesus declared. We still need a Sabbath rest today, as Paul declared in Hebrews that a rest remains. We need to rest, physically, spiritually, emotionally, and yes, we need a break from the incessant tug of the world, AND its entertainments! Let’s spare the video games, television, newspapers, and things of the world, and spend time in worship, with our families, in fellowship, in active recreation, and in service to God and man.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-542 Nathan White Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:31:04 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-542 aionon, Speaking to Gentiles, Peter says: "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." aionon,

Speaking to Gentiles, Peter says:

“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”

]]> By: aionon http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-540 aionon Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:30:46 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-540 Do you realize that in all of your provided passages, those passages are specifically aimed at... the Jews/Hebrews! Those directions are not to "Christians", but his chosen people. Now if you can find Paul, who was sent specifically to deliver the words of God to US, talking about the sabbath, I would say you've made your argument. Do you realize that in all of your provided passages, those passages are specifically aimed at… the Jews/Hebrews! Those directions are not to “Christians”, but his chosen people. Now if you can find Paul, who was sent specifically to deliver the words of God to US, talking about the sabbath, I would say you’ve made your argument.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-539 Nathan White Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:35:29 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-539 Hey Gordan, In all seriousness, I think arguing about the law is not the place to go here. Ultimately, like I have said so many times before, I believe that the Sabbath is rooted in creation and the fact that it is not abrogated in the NT. I feel that you continue to sidestep my best arguments and are trying to nail me at the weakest points (no doubt, maybe you feel the same way about how I am arguing). So, I think I'll step aside for now, until I post again on this issue. I can say, however, that it appears that we agree on the following points: -any OT law continues unless it is abrogated in the new. -the Sabbath was not completely abrogated because there is still a future Sabbath rest (we obviously disagree on what constitutes obeying it). -the Sabbath in it's OT form (Saturday observance; Sabbath feast and years), has either changed or passed away. Thus, we have a lot we agree on, but we're probably not going to work out our disagreements here. It just seems like each of us have presuppositions that we will not let go of (you: the command is ceremonial; me: the command was given at creation and thus cannot be ceremonial). Hey Gordan,

In all seriousness, I think arguing about the law is not the place to go here. Ultimately, like I have said so many times before, I believe that the Sabbath is rooted in creation and the fact that it is not abrogated in the NT. I feel that you continue to sidestep my best arguments and are trying to nail me at the weakest points (no doubt, maybe you feel the same way about how I am arguing). So, I think I’ll step aside for now, until I post again on this issue.

I can say, however, that it appears that we agree on the following points:
-any OT law continues unless it is abrogated in the new.
-the Sabbath was not completely abrogated because there is still a future Sabbath rest (we obviously disagree on what constitutes obeying it).
-the Sabbath in it’s OT form (Saturday observance; Sabbath feast and years), has either changed or passed away.

Thus, we have a lot we agree on, but we’re probably not going to work out our disagreements here. It just seems like each of us have presuppositions that we will not let go of (you: the command is ceremonial; me: the command was given at creation and thus cannot be ceremonial).

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-538 Nathan White Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:03:50 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-538 Hey Gordan, my family was starving the other day, so I broke into the local grocery store and stole some food. I'm sure the judge will understand. Oh, stealing is a moral law? On the basis of what? Doesn't God desire mercy instead of strict obedience? BTW, I did listen to you the first time regarding the woman caught in adultery, I just didn't buy your argument. The ones picking up stones HAD witnessed the crime, and Jesus clearly argues in an attempt to stop them from stoning her, which they did. If they witnessed it, and didn't stone her, then they broke the law, and Jesus did nothing about it. Hey Gordan, my family was starving the other day, so I broke into the local grocery store and stole some food. I’m sure the judge will understand. Oh, stealing is a moral law? On the basis of what? Doesn’t God desire mercy instead of strict obedience?

BTW, I did listen to you the first time regarding the woman caught in adultery, I just didn’t buy your argument. The ones picking up stones HAD witnessed the crime, and Jesus clearly argues in an attempt to stop them from stoning her, which they did. If they witnessed it, and didn’t stone her, then they broke the law, and Jesus did nothing about it.

]]> By: Gordan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-537 Gordan Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:12:02 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-537 NW: Actually, it’s more of a personal interpretation based on what I see as consistent. I see no reason to hold the other 9 as moral if they were given in the exact same context as the ceremonial command. I find it very difficult, IMO, to distinguish between what is moral and what is ceremonial in the rest of the OT law, if we cannot look to the 10 as the absolute foundation for what determines moral vs. ceremonial.

GR: Is it possible the rest of the Bible might give us some guidance?

NW: By the way, Gordan, Jesus broke the commandment to stone adulteries also, so I guess that must make it a ceremonial command.

GR: A canard like this causes me to suspect that I have not been listened to. I’ve already shown why it would have in fact not been lawful to stone her, the legal case having broken down. Jesus was going to let them do it, but they walked away. Jesus didn’t witness the crime. So His telling her to go and sin no more was perfectly in accord with the law.

NW:So just anyone who was hungry could have eaten the showbread? Is this what you’re saying?

GR: IF they were starving to death. God desires mercy and not sacrifice. Welfare of people takes priority over ceremony.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-535 Nathan White Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:55:28 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-535 By the way, Gordan, Jesus broke the commandment to stone adulteries also, so I guess that must make it a ceremonial command. By the way, Gordan, Jesus broke the commandment to stone adulteries also, so I guess that must make it a ceremonial command.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/comment-page-1/#comment-534 Nathan White Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:54:23 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/07/02/keep-the-sabbath-holy-ceremonial/#comment-534 Gordan said: Jesus: David “ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat…”

So just anyone who was hungry could have eaten the showbread? Is this what you’re saying?

]]>