Comments on: So you might be called to the ministry? http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/ "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...” Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:08:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: genembridges http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-468 genembridges Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:57:31 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-468 Steve Hays has recently touched on this too. <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/06/weathering-dry-seasons.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a> Steve Hays has recently touched on this too.

Here

]]> By: Jay-Z http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-471 Jay-Z Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:52:05 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-471 Thanks for this post. I think it is an epidemic in the church today to use this "God language" for anything one does pertaining to our faith in Christ. From proclaiming the Gospel to someone, to giving a meal to the homeless, to wanting to be in ministry, it seems to be measured by how confident we were that God gave us a feeling to do that, or specifically told us to perform the task. God help us to measure our feelings and motivations with your Word. Thanks for this post.

I think it is an epidemic in the church today to use this “God language” for anything one does pertaining to our faith in Christ. From proclaiming the Gospel to someone, to giving a meal to the homeless, to wanting to be in ministry, it seems to be measured by how confident we were that God gave us a feeling to do that, or specifically told us to perform the task.

God help us to measure our feelings and motivations with your Word.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-473 Nathan White Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:26:51 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-473 <em>From proclaiming the Gospel to someone, to giving a meal to the homeless, to wanting to be in ministry, it seems to be measured by how confident we were that God gave us a feeling to do that, or specifically told us to perform the task.</em> Great point. We should certainly recognize that the desire to do these things and others comes from God alone in His regenerating/sanctifying work in our hearts, but not that they come as some sort of Divine mission from God as if He was communicating something to us in a special way. Yes, I feel 'called' to the minstry, exactly like I feel 'called' to witness to the guy on the elevator, to do the dishes for my wife in an act of service, etc. It is the working of the conscience and providence of God wherein we are 'called' to emulate Him in making the wisest of possible decisions. From proclaiming the Gospel to someone, to giving a meal to the homeless, to wanting to be in ministry, it seems to be measured by how confident we were that God gave us a feeling to do that, or specifically told us to perform the task.

Great point. We should certainly recognize that the desire to do these things and others comes from God alone in His regenerating/sanctifying work in our hearts, but not that they come as some sort of Divine mission from God as if He was communicating something to us in a special way.

Yes, I feel ‘called’ to the minstry, exactly like I feel ‘called’ to witness to the guy on the elevator, to do the dishes for my wife in an act of service, etc. It is the working of the conscience and providence of God wherein we are ‘called’ to emulate Him in making the wisest of possible decisions.

]]> By: Denny http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-478 Denny Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:29:32 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-478 I feel called to tell you this was a great read. It brings to mind the booklet Dr. MacArthur wrote concerning knowing God's will. I feel called to tell you this was a great read. It brings to mind the booklet Dr. MacArthur wrote concerning knowing God’s will.

]]> By: Clay Phillips http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-479 Clay Phillips Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:58:22 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-479 Great observation. I also think that there is too much emotionalism about a "call to the ministry." I grew up in small southern churches where the pastor usually had a story about being dragged into the ministry by God, or that theyhad to make the promise that if God would get them out of some situation, they would become a preacher. I never heard of anyone that just "wanted" to become a minister because of their love of God. I was converted later in life than most, and have had a great desire to serve God in whatever capacity that I could. Paul tells Timothy that "If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task." The terms "aspire" and "desire" seem to jump out at me. Notice that he did not say "coerced" and "forced." Great observation. I also think that there is too much emotionalism about a “call to the ministry.” I grew up in small southern churches where the pastor usually had a story about being dragged into the ministry by God, or that theyhad to make the promise that if God would get them out of some situation, they would become a preacher. I never heard of anyone that just “wanted” to become a minister because of their love of God.
I was converted later in life than most, and have had a great desire to serve God in whatever capacity that I could. Paul tells Timothy that “If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.”
The terms “aspire” and “desire” seem to jump out at me. Notice that he did not say “coerced” and “forced.”

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-482 Nathan White Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:35:35 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-482 <em>Paul tells Timothy that “If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.” The terms “aspire” and “desire” seem to jump out at me. Notice that he did not say “coerced” and “forced.”</em> Excellent point and scripture that I left out of this post. Certainly it is God who gives this desire, but it comes just as any other spiritual desire, and not through some mystical process. The desire, of course, must be confirmed by others, and is still subject to the general principles of wisdom. Paul tells Timothy that “If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.” The terms “aspire” and “desire” seem to jump out at me. Notice that he did not say “coerced” and “forced.”

Excellent point and scripture that I left out of this post. Certainly it is God who gives this desire, but it comes just as any other spiritual desire, and not through some mystical process. The desire, of course, must be confirmed by others, and is still subject to the general principles of wisdom.

]]> By: tim http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-484 tim Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:13:58 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-484 wouldn't it be great if more in the SBC realized how the Spirit of God qualifies a man? Instead of going on subjective feelings, they would actually consider what the man desires and his life and character. It would be refreshing instead of "I felt God" and "I heard God say to me" that we would instead hear words like you mentioned in your post concerning the desire, see the giftedness and be in awe of the grace of God that would qualify such a man. May He raise up many godly elders in our midst to shepherd his flock to the praise of His glorious grace. wouldn’t it be great if more in the SBC realized how the Spirit of God qualifies a man? Instead of going on subjective feelings, they would actually consider what the man desires and his life and character. It would be refreshing instead of “I felt God” and “I heard God say to me” that we would instead hear words like you mentioned in your post concerning the desire, see the giftedness and be in awe of the grace of God that would qualify such a man. May He raise up many godly elders in our midst to shepherd his flock to the praise of His glorious grace.

]]> By: JP http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-485 JP Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:57:42 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-485 Pastor Al Martin teaches that there are four elements to a biblical call: 1. An enlightened and sanctified desire for the work of the pastoral ministry 2. A proven fitness for the work of pastoral ministry 3. An adequate external confirmation of fitness for the work of the pastoral office 4. A providential opportunity and proper ecclesiastical recognition for the office and work of a specific pastoral charge. It seems that in many places and among many people that NONE of these is really present. JP Pastor Al Martin teaches that there are four elements to a biblical call:

1. An enlightened and sanctified desire for the work of the pastoral ministry

2. A proven fitness for the work of pastoral ministry

3. An adequate external confirmation of fitness for the work of the pastoral office

4. A providential opportunity and proper ecclesiastical recognition for the office and work of a specific pastoral charge.

It seems that in many places and among many people that NONE of these is really present.

JP

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-486 Nathan White Sat, 30 Jun 2007 22:08:37 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-486 Tim, SBC, what? They have any criteria for leadership? Yeah, right. :) JP said: A proven fitness for the work of pastoral ministry Very good. Very rare indeed. Tim,

SBC, what? They have any criteria for leadership? Yeah, right. :)

JP said: A proven fitness for the work of pastoral ministry

Very good. Very rare indeed.

]]> By: tim http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-487 tim Sun, 01 Jul 2007 12:26:20 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-487 Nathan, Honestly there are a few churces in SBC who recognize these things. I can only name 1 or 2 that I am aware of and that is because I know the pastors:) But the majority that I see just let the "good ol' boys" profess themselves as "qualified" and ordain them into the ministry and subsequently after that, they don't seem to be accountable to anyone. But brother, there is always that remnant:) Nathan,

Honestly there are a few churces in SBC who recognize these things. I can only name 1 or 2 that I am aware of and that is because I know the pastors:) But the majority that I see just let the “good ol’ boys” profess themselves as “qualified” and ordain them into the ministry and subsequently after that, they don’t seem to be accountable to anyone. But brother, there is always that remnant:)

]]> By: James http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-488 James Sun, 01 Jul 2007 23:45:03 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-488 I appreciate your cautious humility. I am reminded of the story of Jonah who fled God's call only to finally relent. The story certain seems to paint Jonah as the "reluctant prophet". Do you suppose he was an exception, or do you think that most true callings (whether secular or religious) are more a matter of fulfilling a duty or mandate and less from arising out of personal desire? I appreciate your cautious humility.

I am reminded of the story of Jonah who fled God’s call only to finally relent. The story certain seems to paint Jonah as the “reluctant prophet”.

Do you suppose he was an exception, or do you think that most true callings (whether secular or religious) are more a matter of fulfilling a duty or mandate and less from arising out of personal desire?

]]> By: Gordan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-489 Gordan Mon, 02 Jul 2007 01:30:33 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-489 As an SBC pastor, I affirm that Nathan is correct, Tim. As an SBC pastor, I affirm that Nathan is correct, Tim.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-490 Nathan White Mon, 02 Jul 2007 02:25:33 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-490 James, That's a tough question. But Jonah isn't the only example in scripture. Moses was certainly reluctant as well. I would say that each circumstance is unique in itself, rather than saying that one way is the norm and one isn't. Gordan, Do you know what 'good ol' boys' are where Tim comes from?? :) James,
That’s a tough question. But Jonah isn’t the only example in scripture. Moses was certainly reluctant as well. I would say that each circumstance is unique in itself, rather than saying that one way is the norm and one isn’t.

Gordan,
Do you know what ‘good ol’ boys’ are where Tim comes from?? :)

]]> By: JP http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-491 JP Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:58:15 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/06/28/so-you-might-be-called-to-the-ministry/#comment-491 Nathan & James, I struggled with this too but I came to the conclusion that these verses must be accounted for: 1 Timothy 3:1 “1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.” 1 Peter 5:2, 3 “2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;” I wouldn't say there MUST be a deep desire, however a man must have some enthusiasm for the task if he is to do it diligently. However Moses and Jonah are prime examples of "holy reluctance" a reluctance born out of true humility, I think this is equally necessary. When you put it together there is a strange mix of feeling led by the God yet depending totally on him to strengthen...and I think that exactly how we should all be, most of all pastors. It's at that point that Al Martins, providential elements prove so important, to bring the reluctant man into the service of the King. JP Nathan & James,

I struggled with this too but I came to the conclusion that these verses must be accounted for:

1 Timothy 3:1 “1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.”

1 Peter 5:2, 3 “2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;”

I wouldn’t say there MUST be a deep desire, however a man must have some enthusiasm for the task if he is to do it diligently. However Moses and Jonah are prime examples of “holy reluctance” a reluctance born out of true humility, I think this is equally necessary.

When you put it together there is a strange mix of feeling led by the God yet depending totally on him to strengthen…and I think that exactly how we should all be, most of all pastors.

It’s at that point that Al Martins, providential elements prove so important, to bring the reluctant man into the service of the King.

JP

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