Comments on: ‘Me-Centered’ Religion http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/ "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you...” Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:39:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Scott http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-11 Scott Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:36:07 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-11 I appreciate your blog. I couldn't agree more about the 'me-centeredness' of Christianity in our American culture today. Like you, I constantly fight my natural inclination towards selfishness - particularly in regard to my personal holiness. It is so easy to read, study, pray, and grow spiritually by myself, but what use is it if I don't share all that I have received (1 Cor 4:7) with my wife, kids, friends, and others? I need to be bringing them along side in knowledge, rather than leaving them behind. What will I tell my Savior at the day of judgment when he asks what I did with what He had so richly blessed me with? Lord, forgive my self-centeredness... I appreciate your blog. I couldn’t agree more about the ‘me-centeredness’ of Christianity in our American culture today. Like you, I constantly fight my natural inclination towards selfishness - particularly in regard to my personal holiness. It is so easy to read, study, pray, and grow spiritually by myself, but what use is it if I don’t share all that I have received (1 Cor 4:7) with my wife, kids, friends, and others? I need to be bringing them along side in knowledge, rather than leaving them behind. What will I tell my Savior at the day of judgment when he asks what I did with what He had so richly blessed me with? Lord, forgive my self-centeredness…

]]> By: Timmy Brister http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-12 Timmy Brister Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:49:05 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-12 Nathan, When you wrote this, the first thing that came to my mind was what I taught a couple of weeks ago in 1 Peter in a section I called "social holiness." For example, 1 Peter 2:12 says, "Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation." Why keep you conduct honorable? Why pursue holiness? Why abstain from fleshly lusts? So that evildoers will see your good deeds and glorify God! (cf. Matt. 5:16). This is all throughout the Bible. Part of the problem in my mind was that my personal sanctification has been seen to only benefit me. When I think of holiness, I think of myself without reference to the world. Yet as Peter again writes, we have been effectually called by God to be a peculiar people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood for the purpose of publishiing, declaring, proclaiming the excellencies of Him who called us out of darkness and into His marvellous light. As we live among Gentiles, it is my prayer that they do not blaspheme God on account of our lives (Rom. 2:24) but are drawn to treasure and behold the beauties of our Savior Jesus Christ. May we display His worth as we present our lives as an offering and living sacrifice, which is our spiritual service of worship (Rom. 12:1). Nathan,

When you wrote this, the first thing that came to my mind was what I taught a couple of weeks ago in 1 Peter in a section I called “social holiness.” For example, 1 Peter 2:12 says, “Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.” Why keep you conduct honorable? Why pursue holiness? Why abstain from fleshly lusts? So that evildoers will see your good deeds and glorify God! (cf. Matt. 5:16). This is all throughout the Bible.

Part of the problem in my mind was that my personal sanctification has been seen to only benefit me. When I think of holiness, I think of myself without reference to the world. Yet as Peter again writes, we have been effectually called by God to be a peculiar people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood for the purpose of publishiing, declaring, proclaiming the excellencies of Him who called us out of darkness and into His marvellous light. As we live among Gentiles, it is my prayer that they do not blaspheme God on account of our lives (Rom. 2:24) but are drawn to treasure and behold the beauties of our Savior Jesus Christ. May we display His worth as we present our lives as an offering and living sacrifice, which is our spiritual service of worship (Rom. 12:1).

]]> By: Gordan http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-13 Gordan Fri, 06 Apr 2007 22:18:03 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-13 Nathan, don't you think it's not really about how much "alone time" you take with God? I mean, the Reformers were famous for praying alone "in their closets" for hours on end. The problem is when all that alone time (no matter the actual total) doesn't succeed in working itself outward in more community-oriented fashion, right? Your three-hour morning devotional is basically a time of self-deceit if you don't come to love your neighbor more and more in practical ways as a result of all that study and prayer. I'm suggesting it's not me-centered to wrestle with God alone in prayer for a long time, even over your own personal issues, as long the fruit of all that prayer is eventually a concern for others. Nathan, don’t you think it’s not really about how much “alone time” you take with God? I mean, the Reformers were famous for praying alone “in their closets” for hours on end. The problem is when all that alone time (no matter the actual total) doesn’t succeed in working itself outward in more community-oriented fashion, right? Your three-hour morning devotional is basically a time of self-deceit if you don’t come to love your neighbor more and more in practical ways as a result of all that study and prayer. I’m suggesting it’s not me-centered to wrestle with God alone in prayer for a long time, even over your own personal issues, as long the fruit of all that prayer is eventually a concern for others.

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-15 Nathan White Sat, 07 Apr 2007 19:40:09 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-15 Scott said: <i>It is so easy to read, study, pray, and grow spiritually by myself, but what use is it if I don’t share all that I have received (1 Cor 4:7) with my wife, kids, friends, and others?</i> Timmy said: <i>my personal sanctification has been seen to only benefit me. When I think of holiness, I think of myself without reference to the world.</i> Guys, I struggle with the exact same things, which is one reason I wrote this post. It’s like I can’t escape selfishness no matter where I turn. However, let me clarify, particularly in light of Gordan’s comment: I’m not decreasing the importance of private study and prayer, I’m only saying that we need to do these things with others in mind, not just ourselves. Holiness isn’t achieved by simply spending 4 hours a day in prayer and study. Yes, we are profiting ourselves, and that certainly has its place, but we are being no profit to others. We were saved to serve, to obey, to look out for others as more important than ourselves. How can we look out for others as more important than ourselves if all we do is focus on our private relationship with God? What we learn/experience in private, we need to teach to others. Where we grow in private should have clear implications on our public life. SDG Scott said: It is so easy to read, study, pray, and grow spiritually by myself, but what use is it if I don’t share all that I have received (1 Cor 4:7) with my wife, kids, friends, and others?

Timmy said: my personal sanctification has been seen to only benefit me. When I think of holiness, I think of myself without reference to the world.

Guys, I struggle with the exact same things, which is one reason I wrote this post. It’s like I can’t escape selfishness no matter where I turn.

However, let me clarify, particularly in light of Gordan’s comment: I’m not decreasing the importance of private study and prayer, I’m only saying that we need to do these things with others in mind, not just ourselves. Holiness isn’t achieved by simply spending 4 hours a day in prayer and study. Yes, we are profiting ourselves, and that certainly has its place, but we are being no profit to others. We were saved to serve, to obey, to look out for others as more important than ourselves. How can we look out for others as more important than ourselves if all we do is focus on our private relationship with God?

What we learn/experience in private, we need to teach to others. Where we grow in private should have clear implications on our public life.

SDG

]]> By: Tim http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-16 Tim Sat, 07 Apr 2007 20:41:15 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-16 Nathan, I second the comments in the last comment you made in addition to the other voices. If we take in and don't give out, then don't we in essence become.........constipated? Or better yet like a lake that moves into a small cove where th water doesn't move but becomes stagnant? So are those who constantly take in, but are never moved to bring forth the water of life. In MacArthur's recent message regarding the Ted Haggard situation, he does an excellent and I might add very convicting job of pointing out just how or holiness, or lack thereof, can effect not only ourselves, but quite possibly ALL believers and unbelievers. Nathan,

I second the comments in the last comment you made in addition to the other voices. If we take in and don’t give out, then don’t we in essence become………constipated? Or better yet like a lake that moves into a small cove where th water doesn’t move but becomes stagnant? So are those who constantly take in, but are never moved to bring forth the water of life. In MacArthur’s recent message regarding the Ted Haggard situation, he does an excellent and I might add very convicting job of pointing out just how or holiness, or lack thereof, can effect not only ourselves, but quite possibly ALL believers and unbelievers.

]]> By: Davide http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-20 Davide Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:44:44 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-20 Excellent thought. The truth convicted me as I was reading it. Excellent thought. The truth convicted me as I was reading it.

]]> By: johnMark http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-22 johnMark Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:49:15 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-22 Nathan, You <i>may</i> be drawing a bit of a false dichotomy here without meaning to. Jesus prayed often by Himself and was able to balance this with His ministry to others. Of course, like everything we do we must examine who we are doing them unto, that is, unto ourselves or unto God. Funny, the things you are saying are just what many in the emergent and missional movements are saying. So are you....just kidding, man. :) What do you think drove Baxter's praxis? Out of time... Mark Nathan,
You may be drawing a bit of a false dichotomy here without meaning to. Jesus prayed often by Himself and was able to balance this with His ministry to others. Of course, like everything we do we must examine who we are doing them unto, that is, unto ourselves or unto God.

Funny, the things you are saying are just what many in the emergent and missional movements are saying. So are you….just kidding, man.
:)

What do you think drove Baxter’s praxis?
Out of time…
Mark

]]> By: Nathan White http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-23 Nathan White Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:34:06 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-23 JM, I'm certainly not trying to say that personal private time isn't of deep importance, and I'm certainly not trying to sound emergent. I'm just trying to show how the gospel of self and 'how is your quiet time doing' has been put up as true holiness in our culture. I don't know too much about Baxter, but I look forward to reading more of The Reformed Pastor. Have you read him much? JM,

I’m certainly not trying to say that personal private time isn’t of deep importance, and I’m certainly not trying to sound emergent. I’m just trying to show how the gospel of self and ‘how is your quiet time doing’ has been put up as true holiness in our culture.

I don’t know too much about Baxter, but I look forward to reading more of The Reformed Pastor. Have you read him much?

]]> By: Ann (Mom!) http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-28 Ann (Mom!) Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:17:01 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-28 Nate, I agree with your post and would encourage you to put this into practice while Courtney is adjusting to a new baby......read the Word TO her....as she is probably too exhausted by the end of the day to even lift a Bible! I also remember when you kids were in the elementary years of homeschooling......I was convicted of these same things. Instead of praying early in the morning or late in the evening when you guys were in bed, I decided that my kids probably needed to find me on my knees during the day (in order to learn that we are to seek the Lord all during the day). One day as I put this into practice, I was beside my bed in the afternoon, and one of you guys came into my room aghast saying, "Mom! What's WRONG???" ----that confirmed and proved that my children hadn't learned that God is a part of our daily lives but only (or predominently) to be sought in times of trouble! "And these words which I am commanding you this day shall be [first] in your [own] minds and hearts; [then] 7You shall whet and sharpen them so as to make them penetrate, and teach and impress them diligently upon the [minds and] hearts of your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up." Deut. 6 (Amplified) Nate,
I agree with your post and would encourage you to put this into practice while Courtney is adjusting to a new baby……read the Word TO her….as she is probably too exhausted by the end of the day to even lift a Bible!

I also remember when you kids were in the elementary years of homeschooling……I was convicted of these same things. Instead of praying early in the morning or late in the evening when you guys were in bed, I decided that my kids probably needed to find me on my knees during the day (in order to learn that we are to seek the Lord all during the day). One day as I put this into practice, I was beside my bed in the afternoon, and one of you guys came into my room aghast saying, “Mom! What’s WRONG???” —-that confirmed and proved that my children hadn’t learned that God is a part of our daily lives but only (or predominently) to be sought in times of trouble!

“And these words which I am commanding you this day shall be [first] in your [own] minds and hearts; [then]
7You shall whet and sharpen them so as to make them penetrate, and teach and impress them diligently upon the [minds and] hearts of your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.” Deut. 6 (Amplified)

]]> By: Grafted Branch http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-83 Grafted Branch Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:29:49 +0000 http://shepherdtheflock.com/2007/04/05/%e2%80%98me-centered%e2%80%99-religion/#comment-83 Surfed over from Brenda at Rocking Chairs and Rainbows... As a homeschool mom of 3 girls, thank you, thank you, thank you for validating -- even extolling -- the practice in fact that nearly all my bible study is shared with these 3 precious little ones. Others would tell me that I'm starving to death spiritually because my time in the Word isn't in the quiet, predawn hours over a cup of coffee. Surfed over from Brenda at Rocking Chairs and Rainbows…

As a homeschool mom of 3 girls, thank you, thank you, thank you for validating — even extolling — the practice in fact that nearly all my bible study is shared with these 3 precious little ones. Others would tell me that I’m starving to death spiritually because my time in the Word isn’t in the quiet, predawn hours over a cup of coffee.

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